Harmonic balancer

[supertruck]

Anyone seen a 2.3 Ford with an external harmonic balancer? Had a chance to see a couple of 2.3's used in hydroplane racing and both had what looked like an external balancer, similar to a Fluidamper. Didn't get to ask anyone about them though so i don't know what was used to make them.

[chrisw21_2000]

Johnson machine has a hub to put a fluid dampner on a 2.3. Some swear by them, but seems like a lot of weight on the front of the crank to me.

[84Dave]

2.3 Ford with a harmonic damper/balancer? EVERYONE should be using the ATI on the front of their 2.3/2.5L 4-cylinder SOHC Fords! Compared to ATI, the Fluidamper is junk! Go to our team Web site, www.secordmotorsports.com . On the Home page, click 'Tech-page3'. View pic's D & E. That's an ATI 6.325" diameter Chev damper on the front of one of my 2.0L's. A 8800 rpm, dual-Weber, roller-cammed engine. We raced that engine on a 1/2-mile paved oval for FOUR years without a rebuild! And the driver, Eddie Secord, couldn't believe the difference in the engine on the 1/2-mile with/without the damper. Nice & smooth! Now....... what about the 2.3/2.5 engines? Just so happens that ATI is fully equipped to serve your needs. Call ATI Tech @ (410)298-4343 & ask for 'David'. I talked to him a couple of days ago. Tell him Dave Carpenter out of OH sent you. They manufacture the hub for the 2.3/2.5 that presses onto the crank snout. Complete with (2) grooves for the water pump & alternator drive V-belts. David will likely recommend the Chev damper mentioned above. And he'll also likely recommend the '2 o-ring' lightweight version. The one I've used. Which weighs a touch over 5#, complete with the steel inertia ring & aluminum outer shell. The unit is internally balanced so you are NOT required to balance the unit with the crank. Simply bolt it on the front of the crank snout. How does it work? The steel inertia ring actually, slightly rotates inside the damper assembly to 'balance itself' with absorbtion of the crank harmonics & slight crank deflections. That self-balance will be complete within a single practice session on the engine. You can also ask that the ignition timing marks on the outside be referenced to the passenger side of the engine. The stock Chev V-8 marks are referenced to the driver side. The hub & damper are not cheap. But I managed an additional 4# torque & 7 HP out of the 2.0L with the ATI & no other changes. And it's use extended my engine rebuilds an additional 2 years! The bearings looked as though they just came out of the box. The ATI harmonic damper will easily pay for itself in a couple of racing seasons. A very worthwhile investment, IMHO! -Dave-

[dave41]

back when running late model. chev v\8 outer ring came off in heat. car lost torque;would not pull down straights.new dampner fixed problem.

[84Dave]

back when running late model. chev v\8 outer ring came off in heat. car lost torque;would not pull down straights.new dampner fixed problem.

Dave...... are you saying the stock Chev V-8 damper came apart on you? If so, we've seen that happen & the engine definitely loses performance. No chance of that happening with the ATI. In our experience. -Dave-

[84Dave]

An interesting article in the latest issue of Circle Track magazine. Authored by Jim McFarland in his 'Enginology' column(page 14). Entitled 'Cranking it up........'. Probably the best article I've ever read on what is happening within the crankshaft of a running race engine. If there was any doubt in one's mind regarding the need for a harmonic damper on the snout of the crankshaft, this article will/should convince any doubters! -Dave-

[Doug_Guilds]

I love this idea! Wish I had the extra cash to try this out. I will save this page for later use. Thanks Dave!

[dannyracer6]

The Master strikes again.....Good stuff, Dave. You always come up with great insights on these little 4 cyl hummers. How are you these days....

Dan

[84Dave]

Doin' OK Dan. Helping where I can to aid some teams getting prepped for the 2012 race season. The way I look at it?........ racers helpin' racers. I no longer have any close-hold 'secrets'. -Dave-

[84Dave]

Another thought/experience on the thread Subject, if you plan to implement the ATI on your engine. Once installed on the front of the engine, prior to initial engine start, use a medium-sized white or yellow color felt-tip pen & draw a straight line, about 1" long, across the intersection of the inner inertia & outer rings of the damper. Then once the engine is run for a short period of time with the damper installed, you'll note the ink line has 'separated' as the inner inertia ring 'moves' to absorb/balance the crankshaft deflections & harmonics across the operating rpm band. Once that happens during the short run period, you'll note the ink line separation ceases & moves no further. The harmonic damper is then totally balanced to the crankshaft deflections/harmonics. -Dave-

[supertruck]

Thought I'd provide an update to Dave's recommendation on the ATI Superdamper for anyone who may want to try it. I installed the Pinto hub on my 2.5 crank with no problems - standard press-on fit. The damper recommended by ATI was a Chevy 2 ring, part number 917020. It's 7.074" in diameter and will not work if you're running one of the Esslinger oversize waterpump pulleys. The damper fouls the pulley. I called ATI and got the part number for a 6 3/8" diameter 2 ring damper. Have to do some measuring to see if it will work or not before I buy one. Thought I'd post this anyway in case one of you readers might be consdiering the ATI damper.

[84Dave]

SuperTruck........ the ATI's I ran were the (2) o-ring & 6.325" in diameter. But the 2.3 engine owners never ran the Esslinger oversize water pump pulley, that I remember, so I can't intelligently comment on that matter. With a bit of math though, it appears the 6.325" ATI would give you right at 3/8" additional vertical clearance to the pump pulley, compared to the 7.075" ATI. -Dave-

[supertruck]

Thanks Dave. if Summit will accept the damper back, i'll trade it for the smaller one and try it out. if they won't accept it then i'll go with a smaller waterpump pulley and keep the damper. either way i'm excited to try it and see what difference i can feel.

[84Dave]

Your rod & main bearings will love you! Assuming no major engine problems, you'll easily be able to race (2) full seasons between engine overhauls. And probably longer. And have ATI 'overhaul' the damper every (2) years. They replace the o-rings & make certain all is well with the unit. Degree marks on the ATI? If they're considerably displaced from your pointer @ the front, MSD has a degree tape for a 6.375" diameter damper, and other damper diameters. I've used many of them. If you do the 360-degree math for a 6.325" ATI versus the MSD 6.375" tape, you'll find the difference in spacing between each degree to be much less than the width of a single timing mark on the tape/damper. Plenty accurate. And finally....... your ignition timing light? Do NOT use a dial-back timing light. We've found those lights can be anywhere from 3-12 degrees in error. Depending on the Chinese/U.S. manufacturer. Use a Flaming River or Sears Craftsman non-dialback. -Dave-

[supertruck]

Thought I'd provide an update on my journey toward running the ATI Super Damper on my 2300. I returned the 7" Ford damper because it fouled the Esslinger water pump pulley and ordered part number 917050, a 6 3/8 two ring Chevy damper recommended by ATI. The new damper fit the hub fine but still fouls the front of the pump pulley. I could have machined a bit off of the front edge of the pulley and cleared the damper, but the damper itself is wide enough that it covers half of the front groove of the hub pulley. In order to run the damper, I'll have to run 2 groove water pump and power steering pulleys so that I can run off the rear groove of the damper. Not a big deal except that I did not want the extra weight of the 2 groove pulleys, and the water pump pulley will not be the large diameter that I wanted to use. We'll see how the motor runs next week in practice.

[supertruck]

Thought I'd provide an update on race weekend with the new ATI damper on my 2300. Ran two races last night. Finished 6th in the first one with some corner exit issues, made some adjustments for the later race and was running a strong 4th when I ran through some oil from a blown motor on a lapped truck. While spinning I was hit in the driver's door by another truck. The hit was hard enough that it broke the bearing in the starter so I was done for the night. It may be my imagination, but I swear I can feel the difference in the engine with the damper on it. The motor revs much stronger and smoother than it did last year, all the way to 7800, which is where I shift from 1st to 2nd. There is no degradation in off corner speed. if anything it's taking the gas better than ever. If the extra weight on the end of the crank is doing anything, I cannot tell by the first two races. The damper was expensive, but so far well worth it to me.

[billb56]

Just wanted to post a ----- BIG ----- "THANK YOU" to DAVE for all his offline help that he gave me with the damper assembly.
I am sure will see the gains of using it and that the payback will be more than the assembly costs.

Bill

[84Dave]

Racers helping racers............... that's what it's all about!! -Dave-