At track chassis tuning guides

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Handling will be looser, more steer no increase in drive angle. Very useful on fast, momentum tracks.
Increased angle will help get/keep car up, but once up against limiter, more angle adds steer, therefore looser handling.

Yep. Once you have reached the limiter device, the upward force in the bars equals the downward force on the chain. The bars only add thrust downforce while lifting the chassis. After that, it is only about the dynamic ride height and accelerations (lateral and fore to aft) acting on the chassis.

[drtrkr244]

Yep. Once you have reached the limiter device, the upward force in the bars equals the downward force on the chain. The bars only add thrust downforce while lifting the chassis. After that, it is only about the dynamic ride height and accelerations (lateral and fore to aft) acting on the chassis.

I respectfully disagree due to the fact, that once the limiting device is maxxed out, the rearend cannot move any farther forward. Thus, the thrust of the left rear is increased. Also, every dlm ive worked on, the limiting device is always maxxed out on acceleration. If that is the case, then every dlm lub adjustment and every adj. guide would be wrong. Maybe it is your particular track condition that is causing this.

[sj valley dave]

Don't forget that you can also lower the LLB to the bottom hole and if you work through a mock up that will show how it will help kill the excess rear steer that having the LUB up high on the chassis will cause...

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I respectfully disagree due to the fact, that once the limiting device is maxxed out, the rearend cannot move any farther forward. Thus, the thrust of the left rear is increased. Also, every dlm ive worked on, the limiting device is always maxxed out on acceleration. If that is the case, then every dlm lub adjustment and every adj. guide would be wrong. Maybe it is your particular track condition that is causing this.

The chain is almost NEVER maxed out at the point the driver applies the throttle. That is why the chassis raises when the driver gets in the gas.

Typically, the limiter is tight once the car is going in a straight line.

The fact the rear is not moving is proof positive that the forces balance out. When forces don't balance out on an object, it moves.

Jed's example is not typical for average saturday night hacks, but he is correct when the situation arises.

It is an example of why tuning guides cannot always be right now matter how hard they try to cover every scenario. The AFCO guide correctly leaves out the lr spring when discussing tightening exit handling. This is because an extreme stop and go track and a momentum track will yield different results when you stiffen the lr spring.

[drtrkr244]

The chain is almost NEVER maxed out at the point the driver applies the throttle. That is why the chassis raises when the driver gets in the gas.

Typically, the limiter is tight once the car is going in a straight line.

The fact the rear is not moving is proof positive that the forces balance out. When forces don't balance out on an object, it moves.

Jed's example is not typical for average saturday night hacks, but he is correct when the situation arises.

It is an example of why tuning guides cannot always be right now matter how hard they try to cover every scenario. The AFCO guide correctly leaves out the lr spring when discussing tightening exit handling. This is because an extreme stop and go track and a momentum track will yield different results when you stiffen the lr spring.

Maybe, we're talking about something different. The dlm's at the tracks i go to are full throttle at the apex or shortly thereafter.The rearend is not moving forward and the body is not lifting ie., the chain must be tight. I know a driver who wins his fair share of races who adjusts the chain length to increase forward bite.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Maybe, we're talking about something different. The dlm's at the tracks i go to are full throttle at the apex or shortly thereafter.The rearend is not moving forward and the body is not lifting ie., the chain must be tight. I know a driver who wins his fair share of races who adjusts the chain length to increase forward bite.

Adjusting the chain will effect the lr drive coming off the corner. I didn't say it wouldn't.

Jed is also correct that keeping the chain the same and increasing the bar angle will give you more steer when the chain is tight.

[drtrkr244]

Adjusting the chain will effect the lr drive coming off the corner. I didn't say it wouldn't.

Jed is also correct that keeping the chain the same and increasing the bar angle will give you more steer when the chain is tight.

Yes, i agree that u will get more roll steer.

But its been my experience that the increase in bar angle gave more drive, not less.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Yes, i agree that u will get more roll steer.

But its been my experience that the increase in bar angle gave more drive, not less.

Depends on car's attitude when the gas is applied. Most cars are not at full extension when the driver gases up. Even if it looks like it is.

[jedclampit]

My point was when you get enuff drive angle to max out the lr travel adding more will loosen the car with increased angle in left upper bar for a set drop.
No doubt, more angle will still get you there faster and keep you maxed out as long as rear tires have traction and chassis has roll.

[jason29a]

This is simple really.... More angle equals more drive. It also equals more loose roll steer. Its a balance between the two. Sometimes you have to cournter with another adjustment to acheive your balance.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

This is simple really.... More angle equals more drive. It also equals more loose roll steer. Its a balance between the two. Sometimes you have to cournter with another adjustment to acheive your balance.

Well...

That is somewhat safe thinking, but not correct. It is more drive until you reach maximum lift. When you reach maximum lift makes all the difference. Once you reach a limiting device, the sum of all forces acting on the axle tube equal zero. The bars are pushing down as much as the undersling bar, chain, shock, whatever, is lifting the wheel. I think that best sums up this whole discussion.

[drtrkr244]

This is simple really.... More angle equals more drive. It also equals more loose roll steer. Its a balance between the two. Sometimes you have to cournter with another adjustment to acheive your balance.

AGREE, The balance you're referring to is matching your left rear tire to the track condition.

The only times I've seen the incresed LUB angle not induce more drive is when a too soft of tire was chosen. That is a mistake I see quite often.

[jason29a]

not to be misunderstood as any amount of increased angle.