No heat in RF tire?

[missile07]

After running Saturday nights heat race I noticed the RF tire had very little to no heat in it at all and the RF shock had 2 inches of travel left in it. The track is a low banked 3/8 mile with fairly decent bite. The car was decent in one turn.... a little tight in but horrible off & too tight in and bad off in the other. Running on American racer tires g-60s. Car just isn't getting over on the right side. Here is what I have:

Chevelle clip GRT

Springs

RF 600
LF 600
RR 175
LR 150 (16inch)

Shocks AFCO non-gas

RF 3-8
LF 5-3
RR 4-4
LR 9-2

Pullbar is a one way spring style with a 1200 spring and 20-22 degrees

Bar Angles

LRU 46 at full drop
LRL 30 at full drop

Cant remember the right side at drop.

Trailing the right side bars 1/4 inch.

Bar lengths are
LRU 16
LRL 12
RRU 16 1/4
RRL 12 1/4

I am running on the short brackets but can run a 13 1/2 or 15 inch bottom bar on both sides if needed.

Q/C with j-bar 1 1/4 above pinion & 6 inches higher on the frame.

Side to side is set to GRT specs.

57 % rear
52.5 % left
49 % cross
25-30 lbs bite

All without me and I am approx. 235 lbs

I dont have the exact scale numbers in front of me but the RF was lower than the LF by about 75 lbs.

Using adjustable uppers and both have right at 12 degrees at ride height and all non friction balljoints.

Any help would be appreciated.

[powerslide]

Exactly the same problem my friend fought w/ his GRT wouldnt get over on RR/couldnt feel the RR. i was suggesting he either lower the RR upper spring mount or move the spring mount inward but he sold it and got a skyrocket so we never got to work on it.

What fuel cell do you have 32 or 22? Which set of mounting holes? He moved his up and it made entry bad tight.
I would suggest using the longest RRL bar that will help free it up getting in. Maybe to get more roll lower the j-bar on both ends and then make other changes to free up entry as well.

[missile07]

I have the 22 gal fuel cell. It is pretty high and to the left. I have looked for binding issues and cant find anything wrong.

The j-bar is pretty high in the car so I think I may give that a shot first but I have it where GRT suggest right now.

[washeduptoo]

Where are your rr bars at ride ht? You can have less fuel to reduce rear percent that would help. AR makes a shorty tire if you think stagger would help. Moving the rr tire out would help also. Just some suggestions, good luck.

[dirttrackrocker]

I'm having the same problem. Won't get over on the RF. I was told to try a heavier LR spring. And I was running a 200, I'm gonna go up to a 250

[JustAddDirt]

If you need the car to get over on RR, try moving the fuel cell to the right. All that LR weight is hard to transfer to the RR and RF on a flat track.
Especially if you have 2" of travel left on the RF with a 600# spring.
The weight needs to transfer to right side, but it is hard to do with all that weight of the fuel cell on the LR.
You will still have pleanty of left side with the 235# driver
Do you have a brake floater on the LR, if so put more up angle in it.

Just a thought
you will get all kinds of ideas here.

[JustAddDirt]

I'm having the same problem. Won't get over on the RF. I was told to try a heavier LR spring. And I was running a 200, I'm gonna go up to a 250

When you do this you will have little to no preload. This will cause the car to fall down till it his the spring on deceleration making entry erratic.
I would not recomment going more than a 200.

[dirttrackrocker]

Using a 16" spring plus I weigh 260.

[missile07]

JustADDDirt,

I do have a brake floater on the LR and it is one hole above my LR top bar. I have a 40 lb weight that I was thinkin about putting on above the right rear in front of the fuel cell. High in the car.

I will check the bar angles for sure tonight and post them. I am running right at 2 inches of stagger when its tacky and 1 inch -1 1/2 during the feature

[powerslide]

I have the 22 gal fuel cell. It is pretty high and to the left. I have looked for binding issues and cant find anything wrong.

The j-bar is pretty high in the car so I think I may give that a shot first but I have it where GRT suggest right now.

i would try moving the cell down and to the right or maybe one at a time. Then also moving the j-bar down to get some roll back along w/ softening the RF spring. W/ the track being flat like mentioned going to be tough to get it over on the RF. Trying to get both ends working together is my opinion.

In refrence to the stiff lr vs the soft lr. Per a very trusted source a stiffer spring will provide more bite/instant traction in the center if off the bars when picking up the gas. Our grt was better w/ a 225 in the lr most of the time. So in short if you cant trail brake i think a stiffer LR is better.

[JustAddDirt]

JustADDDirt,

I do have a brake floater on the LR and it is one hole above my LR top bar. I have a 40 lb weight that I was thinkin about putting on above the right rear in front of the fuel cell. High in the car.

I will check the bar angles for sure tonight and post them. I am running right at 2 inches of stagger when its tacky and 1 inch -1 1/2 during the feature

I would not go any higher on the floater.
bet if you put a gas shock on the LR that probably make it get over on the RR easier.

[missile07]

I have several gas shocks to choose from....

Bilstein 8 comp-2reb BSB
Bilstein 5 comp-3reb
Bilstein 9 comp-2reb TSM
AFCO 9-2 200lb psi

Would it be helpful to have both left side shocks gas?

[JustAddDirt]

since I am soponsored by Bilstein I sould say go with one of those.
I would go with either the 8/2 or 9/2
gas them to 200 if you can, no big deal if you cannot.
this should also help traction a bit as well.

[missile07]

ok thanks. I will have to look at them to see the psi on each. Should I leave the oil shocks on the other 3 corners?

[JustAddDirt]

I would leave the other 3 a twin tube, and give it a try.

[Egoracing]

In reference to going stiffer on the LR, Remember if you are transfering 600 lbs from right to left during cornering and you have a 200 lb spring the chassis is going to raise 3 inches just from weight transfer. If you are running a 150 lb spring the chassis is going to raise 4 inches from transfer. This added lift will also increase the centerline of the chassis which will increase leverage on the suspension AND cause more weight to transfer.

If you want to transfer more to the RF go to a softer spring which will allow the chassis to compress it more which will also allow the LR to extend some more. Just dont go so soft that it bottome out.

This is why so many late models are running a stacked LR, it allows them to get into the 100-150 lb LR spring, couple that to the 250-375 RF and they are going into and thru the corner on the RF while in the gas more.

[drtrkr244]

First, I would check out the GRT set'up guide. You're pretty far off spring wise.

Second, You are way off on rear stagger.If you have a 60" track width,on a 140' radius turn, the rear stagger should be in the 3 and 3/4 inch range for the feature.A lot of modified drivers make this mistake.The proper stagger for a late model would be in the 4 and 1/2 range with only a 6" wider track width.I know it can be difficult to get with IMCA tires, but get as much as you can.

Third, check your RR tire temp.It should be 5-10 degrees warmer. If the track has moisture, your tires wont even get warm.

[Dirtrunner35]

If I drive my car in just right , it doesn't roll over very much on the right front. Sounds to me your car is too tight in almost every corner, with a 16'' 150 lb spring, it would have alot of preloaded weight in the spring. Tire pressure, wheel offset ?

[drtrkr244]

If I drive my car in just right , it doesn't roll over very much on the right front. Sounds to me your car is too tight in almost every corner, with a 16'' 150 lb spring, it would have alot of preloaded weight in the spring. Tire pressure, wheel offset ?

AGREE.......His spring rates versus what GRT suggests, points to too tight.

[powerslide]

In reference to going stiffer on the LR, Remember if you are transfering 600 lbs from right to left during cornering and you have a 200 lb spring the chassis is going to raise 3 inches just from weight transfer. If you are running a 150 lb spring the chassis is going to raise 4 inches from transfer. This added lift will also increase the centerline of the chassis which will increase leverage on the suspension AND cause more weight to transfer.

If you want to transfer more to the RF go to a softer spring which will allow the chassis to compress it more which will also allow the LR to extend some more. Just dont go so soft that it bottome out.

This is why so many late models are running a stacked LR, it allows them to get into the 100-150 lb LR spring, couple that to the 250-375 RF and they are going into and thru the corner on the RF while in the gas more.

I think what you are saying is the softer spring has more overall drive correct? Especially if you can keep it somewhat on the bars. But i am saying from the point where its laying flat where you are initially picking up the gas it will have more go forward(i know technical term) at this point. That was my understanding from what the great guru told me.