car plow into corner front roll center issue? or something else?

[cgs]

so im at wits end here. the track is hooked up, let off the gas get on the brake and the car wants to push to the wall, the harder you push the brakes the more it wants to push. i have to throw the car in extremely hard ro get it to rotate. when the track dries out it still wants to push into the corner but not as bad. here is my set up and what ive done and tried to do :

03 bms metric clip nova lowers pinto spindles
lf 700 93 shock
rf 950 95 shock all bilstien gas shocks
lr 325 swing arm (217 corrected and on the arm) 94
rr 175 2link in front shock on rear
48 cross
52.5 left
56 rear
1in of rr trail
wheel weights: 576lf 480rf
690 674
i'm running out of ideas on what to do. I've run an 850 rf spring with 100 lr bite ive gone down from 200rr spring to 175, tried a 2off rr, moved the rear end over 1in, tried left side weight at 53.5, 1in of rr trail, lowered frame j bar/raised pinion, no rf brake. found rear master cylinder to be a 1in, changed it to a 7/8. i have gauges on the brakes and i can get 800lbs on the rear and 100 lbs on the front brakes. found the brake biass slide adjust too tight. adjusted it to willwoods specs. thoght it was a carb problem changed that. i was running mechanical advance in the distributor ( very easy to start) so i thought the weights were hanging up so i locked it out. i do run cheapo pads so im going to by some good ones this week. car rolls over about 2-3 inches on the right side. this car hikes up also. tried a heavy compression shock on lr. anybody have a clue what im missing? would front roll center be off? is the rf wheel weight too light causing the the rf to not get grip?
the reason im running a 2link/swing arm is because my track gets awefully rough. like moto cross rough.

[jsf74]

I'm no pro but does anyone else think those front springs are way too stiff?

[26-62 racing]

Just a thought, and you sound very frustrated from working your tail off to fix the problem. But with that much rear weight and the right rear tailing 1''. Is the rear end driving the car,and the front tires cannot over come the rear push to turn the car? And with the right side trailing the rear end is pointed to the wall , also driving the car to the wall. Hope this helps.

Mike
26B owner driver

[cavemod]

I ran a 2link clamped on left z swing arm on the rr a couple years ago and had pretty much the same thing when I started with it.this is what i suggest which some may say is wrong but it helped a ton.change the rf spring to a 750 (950 way to stiff w nova lowers)on the rear go to a 225 spring on the lr(when on the bars the car is just sitting on the spring and doesn't know what spring it has) make sure bite is around 75lbs or less.when i drove the car i had to make sure to be off the brakes by the apex of the corner or it pushed like a dump truck be on the gas to get the car to turn also trail the rr 1/4".you never mentioned how much split you got in your j bar.another thing is try and get front wheel split under 125#.This may sound whacked out but it may a ton of difference in my car i shaved a full second off my lap times.Remember don't touch the brakes in the corner or it will push.Caster is+2 lf and +5 on the rf more is better.I got this info from a guy who ran this setup on a usmts car back in 05 and finished 2nd in rookie points.

[cgs]

I can try running lower rear weight.. Haven't tried that yet

[cgs]

My car is bent mind you, lf rr 6.25
Rf and lr 7. It sound like you are saying to get the car up quicker on the lr bar which is on the gas. Once the car is rotated it's a rocket ship. Just won a dry slick race last weekend.it being tight isn't too bad when it's dry. Off the gas and on the brakes is where it pushes to the wall

[powerslide]

I think u mentioned it but did u make sure your balance bar isn't binding up int the pedal?

[cgs]

Powerslide-
That was what I found. When I bought the car the two yokes for masters were up tight to the pedal and the bearing wouldn't slide back and forth. And made sure that the bar didn't contact the peddle housing when the brakes were applied.

[cgs]

Pieman- hey something you said about cheap pads hit me. That is exactly what happens. The car rotates good the first two or three laps then it goes to hell. I'll try some good pads and see what happens. What pads do you recommend ? Hawk 30's ok?

[powerslide]

Something else. Is the car picking up a lot of weight from the tacky track causing the change in handling?

[cgs]

Powerslide-
As in what? Mud?
You're right more towards the back and right side. I think I will bring a scale and record what is added on back and side. Good thought powerslide

[powerslide]

Powerslide-
As in what? Mud?
You're right more towards the back and right side. I think I will bring a scale and record what is added on back and side. Good thought powerslide

Exactly mud. Some of the late model teams have put a tarp like material under the deck on the lr and RR

[cgs]

Will pull bar length or angle have any affect at entry off the throttle?

[Flyin Iowan]

Have you checked your calipers? is the RF sticking? does the LF work? Also check to see if the RF lower a-frame is hitting the rotor.

[cgs]

I disconnected the right front caliper. It was a little better at entry but still not rotating like I want. The left front locks up in the gravel when driving on my property so I'm assuming it works. I will check to see if the rotor is hitting the a frame. Thanks

[Sportmod Rookie]

Just a thought, and you sound very frustrated from working your tail off to fix the problem. But with that much rear weight and the right rear tailing 1''. Is the rear end driving the car,and the front tires cannot over come the rear push to turn the car? And with the right side trailing the rear end is pointed to the wall , also driving the car to the wall. Hope this helps.

Mike
26B owner driver

I believe this guy has the correct answer. I had a bunch of RR trail in my car cuz i was having the same problem. I was explaining my problem to a local guy with a lot of experience and he told me to take it to a 1/2" of trail. Thought he was crazy and it was going to make it worse because i always heard trail the RR to make it loose. Trust me.... made it 100 times better. Its just like the guy above was saying. If you take it out it will allow your rear end to slide and not just blast you into the wall like a rocket ship. Try it in hot laps or heat race. If you dont like it you can easily change it back.

[cgs]

Thanks. I actually just took a half inch out before I posted anything about my problem. Just waiting to go racing again to try. Had to go party in Vegas

[cgs]

Also my j bar is center with 9'' pinion and 4 inch of split.

[cgs]

Just curious, how is everyones rear end centered? The reason I ask is the driveshaft is straight in the car but looking down both rotors to stock frame rails the rr rotor is inset a couple of inches and the lr is just outside or so. I don't know what is correct because my car is an abomination that is no longer what BMS built in 2003.

[Sportmod Rookie]

Call BMS and talk to Brandon. He should be able to help you.