BEWARE msd ignition

**jeff mack** · 06-23-2012, 11:35 AM

everyone should keep track on their new msd ignition. we bought one pro billet dist. brand new put it in the motor and haven't got 50 laps out of the motor either time before it blowed up..this is the fourth time it has blowed up and and thanks to everette at willys carb we found out that the dist was put together from the factory wrong and had the polarity reversed which would let pre detenate when ever it wanted had has really caused a mess... we were chasing everything out from oiling to parts to you name it and finially the info from willys,tech west,rousch racing ,and a couple others that msd has been having trouble in the quality dept for long over a year now. we are in the process of talking to msd but the (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)s will not return phone calls ... i know it wont be long before they talk to a lawyer over this crap... so keep up with your new parts from msd...will not say who but a rousch team car uses mallory ignition ... has anyone else has this trouble? willys said he has had 5 or 6 of these in the last 2+ years but it is defiantly a issue...kinda pisses a person off to build a new 800+ hp motor with all a+ parts and have to have it rebiult in less than 50 laps.. there is not 200 laps on the whole motor since it was new....

**Egoracing** · 06-23-2012, 11:43 AM

It has been posted on here several times over the past year or so to check the wiring by checking which way the timing moves.

If you are saying a Rousch team as in NASCAR Cup, I do not believe there is a NASCAR Cup legal Mallory ignition.

**guruofdirt** · 06-23-2012, 12:51 PM

A guy at our track had this problem but he figured it out before losing or harming his 604.

**billetbirdcage** · 06-23-2012, 07:13 PM

It's good that you bought this up, but it was been brought up numerous times that this does and can happen. It only takes a few seconds to switch the wires around and confirm which way is correct. Also a lot of times, you can see that it's wrong by:

1. With the timing set (let's say 36 degrees)
2. Roll the engine over to compression on #1 and stop with the balance on 36 degrees before TDC.
3. Take the dist cap off and look if the rotor is pointed at the #1 cap terminal. If the polarity is wrong this will be way off almost a 1/3 of the way to the terminal before or after the #1 terminal it should be lined up with. (obviously if the dist is not phased correctly, this might mislead you but you still have a phasing problem that needs looked at anyway.)

You need to check the polarity on every engine or car combo, don't assume it's right!

If I remember correctly an analog box like the 6al, the correct polarity is the way most retarded and with a digital box the correct polarity is the most advanced.

Steve Hendren can confirm this, if he see's this post to make sure I'm right on the analog and digital deal. (Disclaimer: Verify that yourself that I listed this correctly, LOL!)

**billetbirdcage** · 06-23-2012, 10:07 PM

I'm just not 100% on the digital ones but I think they are opposite of the analog 6al. I'm also not sure what all ones are digital without looking but thinking most of the later 7 and 8 series are and there might be a newer 6 that is digital.

Just be sure you check with someone that is 100% sure on this, as I'm not 100% on the digital deal.

**jeff mack** · 06-24-2012, 02:23 PM

i was leaving up to my engine builder but it got really bad really quick and they said they had it figured out but no sucess and i am tired of it now.. msd needs to built quality NOT quanity. we pay good bucks for their products and to get this crap... no way... if something is not fixed from them i will be another rousch racing supporter and go to mallory and know alot of others that is swapping now... and yes i am saying rousch racing engines (dirt division) and i know that for a fact.i was talking to him face to face...! the side of a race car is a awsome bilboard for adv. for parts...the 6al box is correct already had that done...but i am really tired of paying good money for crap parts and have to repair them before you can use them.. thats frickn crazy, might as well build up a hei dist for less money or use a mag...guess need to stop listening to some people when they say their parts are perfect nothing is never wrong with our componets...maybe sue their butt or something...why spend $214.00 on a box and $270.00 on a dist.then $50.00 on a adapt a cap then spend $150.00 to check out and tune their box right and then $150.00 to get dist checked out then all the shipping etc and the bs that goes with it that is not cool....

**jeff mack** · 06-24-2012, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by billetbirdcage

It's good that you bought this up, but it was been brought up numerous times that this does and can happen. It only takes a few seconds to switch the wires around and confirm which way is correct. Also a lot of times, you can see that it's wrong by:

1. With the timing set (let's say 36 degrees)
2. Roll the engine over to compression on #1 and stop with the balance on 36 degrees before TDC.
3. Take the dist cap off and look if the rotor is pointed at the #1 cap terminal. If the polarity is wrong this will be way off almost a 1/3 of the way to the terminal before or after the #1 terminal it should be lined up with. (obviously if the dist is not phased correctly, this might mislead you but you still have a phasing problem that needs looked at anyway.)

You need to check the polarity on every engine or car combo, don't assume it's right!

If I remember correctly an analog box like the 6al, the correct polarity is the way most retarded and with a digital box the correct polarity is the most advanced.

Steve Hendren can confirm this, if he see's this post to make sure I'm right on the analog and digital deal. (Disclaimer: Verify that yourself that I listed this correctly, LOL!)

i noticed msd makes i rotor that you can phase in now

**billetbirdcage** · 06-24-2012, 03:35 PM

I feel your pain, but now-a-days (more imported or outsourced parts) you just have to check everything including high dollar/respected companies. Even the best companies will have some mistakes, it's how it's handled after is what makes a good company.

The best thing to do is assume everything is wrong and check it over to prove different before installing. I know you shouldn't have to do this, but that's what all the successful teams/builders do.

Good luck!

**jeff mack** · 06-24-2012, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by billetbirdcage

I feel your pain, but now-a-days (more imported or outsourced parts) you just have to check everything including high dollar/respected companies. Even the best companies will have some mistakes, it's how it's handled after is what makes a good company.

The best thing to do is assume everything is wrong and check it over to prove different before installing. I know you shouldn't have to do this, but that's what all the successful teams/builders do.

Good luck!

you are 100% right but you can sure bash the crap parts out there and that is what may next wrap might have on it "do not buy msd it is junk" on the quarter panels lol

**MI Dirt Fan** · 06-24-2012, 06:14 PM

This is interesting to hear. Not sure how it relates to our problem though. Last year we bought Pro Billett ready to run distributor, part #8365. Used it all year with no problems. Changed the springs in it and now the timing keeps moving on us. We marked the shaft and the intake to see if its moving and it's not.

**jedclampit** · 06-25-2012, 01:44 PM

Did you use their connectors or cut off/use a pre made harness and install a weather pack type?
Reason being is: the purple wire does not go to the black wire with purple tracer, and this is a VERY,VERY,VERY common mis connection made way too often with the 6al type boxes.

**billetbirdcage** · 06-25-2012, 02:11 PM

In all fairness to the OP or his engine builder, we don't know the whole story so let's not completely throw the builder under the the bus. They may or may not have know about polarity, but any competent one does it just may not have gotten to the OP.

Granted I thought the same thing, but without knowing 100% of the details it's a little unfair to blame the engine builder, OP, or MSD at this point but mistakes are known to happen as we are all human.

That being said, I'm pretty sure Bill Hendren posted that he received at least one or 2 dizzy (probably 3 years or so ago) that had the wire crossed in the pickup. So if you didn't check it, it would have been wrong.

I guess the Moral of the story is check everything, DO NOT ASSUME it is correct! Check it every single time you use an engine in a different car or different engine/dizzy in same car.

**billetbirdcage** · 06-25-2012, 03:08 PM

NO, I totally agree with ya! That was my first thought also, but I try to be fair and without knowing all the info it's not really possible to make a call one way or the other.

If the engine builder did have the engine several times and looked everything over (assuming the engine builder had access to the ignition system the OP was using), then yes part of the fault could rely on the engine builder from not checking it. I just didn't go there as I don't know if or what all happened. Even though there may been/was a mistake by MSD on wiring, the builder should have caught this (again assuming things that may or may not be true.)

Hopefully this entire post may help someone that didn't know about this and save them some time and money which is partially what the OP intended. It's things like this that separate race engine builders from stock engine builders that think they can build performance stuff, if you have a builder that didn't know this.....? well be careful as what else do they not know??? Not everyone is going to know everything but somethings are pretty basic knowledge that anyone with some experience in race engines is going to have.

That also wasn't directed 100% towards you, as I knew what you meant. I was just kind of saying something before it turned into a bash fest on some company without enough info to really come to a conclusion of who or what is to blame.

**jeff mack** · 06-29-2012, 08:17 AM

the engine builder is in joplin mo. but i trusted the builder to have this all under control, i was the one that sent the dist to willys and they found it. then we took the motor back to them... i use to go to kirn racing engines in st.louis mo they were totaly great at motors so i put trust in the builders, which that is never going to happen again... hope it does help out other racers.. this has been on going for a year now and the parts were brodix block crower crank dyres rods and je pistons . all new but the culpret was a new dist. i know i am getting tired of putting it in and pulling it out in the same weekend... from now on the caps will be phased in then should not have any problems... i use to do thet when i run crank trigger on my drag car and going to do it again in this motor... like i say i hope it helps other racers to find out this problem before it get them..i know this will be checked everytime it is timednow i got a tip on what to do on some other parts also

**perfconn** · 06-29-2012, 08:44 AM

Not sure you understand the problem.MSD has mad a phaseable rotor button for years,thats not your problem.The problem is the polarity between the distributor and the MSD box.No engine builder would know its wrong.You have to check it when you put the engine in the car.

**hot rock** · 07-01-2012, 02:23 AM

We were chasing our tails also this year,thought it was yhe coil,car would start and run then either cut out or just die,we bought new coil ran fine in shop.next morning would not start.we bought a new msd box digatal and it had a light on it,when we turned on the ign.light would come on a few seconds then go off.we disconnect wires hooked to battery charger light stayed on ,figered out we had a grounding problem,put our old box we had for years ,left new coil on car,went to track car dies while under caution.i went to msd trouble shooting website,and starting every oming every thing out it kelp saying change coil and try again.put our old coil back on that we had for years every things fine,so yes i would say msd has a quality control problem.

**Egoracing** · 07-01-2012, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by hot rock

We were chasing our tails also this year,thought it was yhe coil,car would start and run then either cut out or just die,we bought new coil ran fine in shop.next morning would not start.we bought a new msd box digatal and it had a light on it,when we turned on the ign.light would come on a few seconds then go off.we disconnect wires hooked to battery charger light stayed on ,figered out we had a grounding problem,put our old box we had for years ,left new coil on car,went to track car dies while under caution.i went to msd trouble shooting website,and starting every oming every thing out it kelp saying change coil and try again.put our old coil back on that we had for years every things fine,so yes i would say msd has a quality control problem.

Just to let everyone know, ohm ing out a battery problem + or - may not find the problem. I deal with emergency battery backup power daily and you can have a great connection that OHM's out perfect, put that connection under load and it can completley fail in seconds, let it cool down and the connection will OHM out perfect again. If you think you are having a current problem, the only way to check it and be sure is to get it up to operating temprature and then load test it, not use an OHM meter.

Hot Rock, if you found a ground problem then that could have easily damaged a new ignition and coil. I would not blame MSD's quality for an issue with your car that could have been what killed/damaged the new parts. That would be like buying a hew tire, running over something and cutting it and then blaming Hoosier.

**jeff mack** · 07-01-2012, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by perfconn

Not sure you understand the problem.MSD has mad a phaseable rotor button for years,thats not your problem.The problem is the polarity between the distributor and the MSD box.No engine builder would know its wrong.You have to check it when you put the engine in the car.

oh believe me i understand the real problem just saying. when the connector is right and the dist is wrong from the factory there is the problem. it started doing this from the begining car is correct but the motor builder should have had the meens to check out the dist after it fried the 2 4 6 pistons... also there is a motor builder in jackson that has a msd problem, all new msd box and dist. motor will not run, pull all the high dollar stuff out stick in a stock hei and it runs great compaired to the msd.... msd has a problem as i am finding out more and more every day, but they don't think they do

**jeff mack** · 07-01-2012, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by hot rock

We were chasing our tails also this year,thought it was yhe coil,car would start and run then either cut out or just die,we bought new coil ran fine in shop.next morning would not start.we bought a new msd box digatal and it had a light on it,when we turned on the ign.light would come on a few seconds then go off.we disconnect wires hooked to battery charger light stayed on ,figered out we had a grounding problem,put our old box we had for years ,left new coil on car,went to track car dies while under caution.i went to msd trouble shooting website,and starting every oming every thing out it kelp saying change coil and try again.put our old coil back on that we had for years every things fine,so yes i would say msd has a quality control problem.

amen to that