BEWARE msd ignition

[jeff mack]

hate to say it but yea and have to add that they have treated me right so far on this ... they have stepped up and took on the rest of this so i cannot say nothing bad about them so far.... i know he went to rousch engines

[dirtdevil]

I will not say nothing bad about them either. Used to use them years ago, was always good, friendly people. Just wondering if something has happeded quality wise.

On your subject though, this may have been mentioned, but Bill Hendren and even Perfconn used to always remind people to not run their coil wire parallel to the MSD harness.

[hot rock]

Just to let everyone know, ohm ing out a battery problem + or - may not find the problem. I deal with emergency battery backup power daily and you can have a great connection that OHM's out perfect, put that connection under load and it can completley fail in seconds, let it cool down and the connection will OHM out perfect again. If you think you are having a current problem, the only way to check it and be sure is to get it up to operating temprature and then load test it, not use an OHM meter.

Hot Rock, if you found a ground problem then that could have easily damaged a new ignition and coil. I would not blame MSD's quality for an issue with your car that could have been what killed/damaged the new parts. That would be like buying a hew tire, running over something and cutting it and then blaming Hoosier.

never said it damaged msd box,and yes you can find a lot of electrical problems,with an ohm meter.when i took the coil back the guy at parts store tested it and said,we have had a lot of these returned lately.

[hot rock]

thanks for agreeing with me,aperrantly ego racing.is more ego and no racing,or works for msd havent heard any big races he's won lately.(or is he jimmy owens or scott bloomqulst under a different name?)

[Egoracing]

thanks for agreeing with me,aperrantly ego racing.is more ego and no racing,or works for msd havent heard any big races he's won lately.(or is he jimmy owens or scott bloomqulst under a different name?)

You stated that you had a ground problem and had a bad coil, bad grounds kill more ignitions and cost more power than most people ever realize. An engine not grounded too the chassis correctly can cause the coil to overheat, not to mention running a parts store coil in a racing application. Ego has nothing to do with knowledge, If you are relying on the motor mount bolts to ground an engine you are loosing power and can be cooking the coil. The steel chassis is NOT a good ground and and engine can easily pick up 15-20 HP just by running a ground wire from the battery to the engine block and both heads.

[dualdj1]

You stated that you had a ground problem and had a bad coil, bad grounds kill more ignitions and cost more power than most people ever realize. An engine not grounded too the chassis correctly can cause the coil to overheat, not to mention running a parts store coil in a racing application. Ego has nothing to do with knowledge, If you are relying on the motor mount bolts to ground an engine you are loosing power and can be cooking the coil. The steel chassis is NOT a good ground and and engine can easily pick up 15-20 HP just by running a ground wire from the battery to the engine block and both heads.

That's an interesting statement. I know aluminum is a far better conductor than steel, but wouldn't think you'd lose that much power by going through the frame. obviously the better grounds you have, the better electrical travel you are going to have (be it spark, etc), but I didn't think it'd be that much difference.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

That's an interesting statement. I know aluminum is a far better conductor than steel, but wouldn't think you'd lose that much power by going through the frame. obviously the better grounds you have, the better electrical travel you are going to have (be it spark, etc), but I didn't think it'd be that much difference.

I think the problem is you don't always get a good connection to the chassis. I have seen a lot of problems corrected by running a ground too.

How good of a connection do you get to the engine when it is bolted into a painted chassis?

[dualdj1]

I think the problem is you don't always get a good connection to the chassis. I have seen a lot of problems corrected by running a ground too.

How good of a connection do you get to the engine when it is bolted into a painted chassis?

Yeah I usually make sure where it's bolted there's no paint, or alternately use a ground strap. My statement was more regarding where good ground connections existed, and was more in reference to ground bus material (steel vs alum vs copper) I get the point though that a lot of people don't think about making sure they have good metal to metal connections, where paint may be an insulator.

[Egoracing]

I always run a GOOD #4 ground to the engine block from the battery then a #10 form there to the drivers box for grounds. We had an issue with distributors and spark and I started adding a #10 wire from the block bolt to each head and the distributor and the problem went away. When I hear of a bad coil, dist problems, or engines having issues that is always the first thing I check.

The reason I started wiring them like this is after a complete car that was bought from a major mfg that we had started having electrical problems and I found that they grounds in the drivers box were to the aluminum of the box and there was nothing grounding the box, After than I run all my own wiring. We had 1 electrical issue after that, the main power switch that was brand new, died. It was easily found and replaced.
I think it was Bill Hendren that posted that he had seen a head ground wire gain 20HP on the dyno.

[jedclampit]

Lets not forget the rear engine plate is a multi point source of ground for the engine also.
I personally have never ran any extra grounds,nor had a ground problem..... ever!
One to each head, and the block may be a bit over redundant in my opinion.
YMMV

[Egoracing]

Lets not forget the rear engine plate is a multi point source of ground for the engine also.
I personally have never ran any extra grounds,nor had a ground problem..... ever!
One to each head, and the block may be a bit over redundant in my opinion.
YMMV

Cast Iron blocks are painted, the chassis are painted, then you are putting an aluminum plate to steel which will cause corrosion which will cause loss of connection, then we add soaps and water to that while washing the car. NONE of these are conducive to a good connection.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I have gotten away with it plenty of times Jed. I have also seen a LM with a ground strap on the engine block that wouldn't run right unless a ground strap was attached to the HEI distributor.

[dualdj1]

Lets not forget the rear engine plate is a multi point source of ground for the engine also.
I personally have never ran any extra grounds,nor had a ground problem..... ever!
One to each head, and the block may be a bit over redundant in my opinion.
YMMV

Yep it likely is overkill. However, in this case, overkill causes no harm, and ensures that you always have a solid ground, which means good conductivity for the whole system.

[Egoracing]

Yep it likely is overkill. However, in this case, overkill causes no harm, and ensures that you always have a solid ground, which means good conductivity for the whole system.

Exactly, the ONE time it pops up is when you are leading a big race with a few laps left then no fire. I have seen one engine that was an aluminum block and head car that ran hot and after is was pulled into the pits would not start to be able to add water to the cooling system to cool it off. We had to load it up on in the trailer and go home and let it cool down. The next day it would spin over all day but would not fire at all to get it into the shop so we had to push it. Popped the cap on the radiator and filled it up and it fired right up. My buddy that owned the car (It was a drag car) shut it down and said to drain the water. Drained it all out and it would not fire at all. This was a solid front plate and mid plate chassis that was powder coated. Filled the radiator back up and it fired up. We checked and without water in the cooling system the heads were not grounded at all. The only thing that was creating the ground to the plugs was the water. We grounded the engine to the battery and the block, heads and intake and for the next week we broke out on every practice run. With the engine completely grounded the car picked up about .08 every pass. This was on a full chassis 9.0 index car that could run high 8.8-8.9 without the throttle stop before the grounds were added and were low 8.80's with them and nothing else. we even adjusted the jetting and timing for the temperature and humidity every round.

[hot rock]

You stated that you had a ground problem and had a bad coil, bad grounds kill more ignitions and cost more power than most people ever realize. An engine not grounded too the chassis correctly can cause the coil to overheat, not to mention running a parts store coil in a racing application. Ego has nothing to do with knowledge, If you are relying on the motor mount bolts to ground an engine you are loosing power and can be cooking the coil. The steel chassis is NOT a good ground and and engine can easily pick up 15-20 HP just by running a ground wire from the battery to the engine block and both heads.

it was a msd blaster 2 coil,same as we have running for probably 10 years.the new ones are probaly made in china.not worth a ------

[perfconn]

Alwas blame the parts or the engine builder,never take blame when you can blame someone else.

[Egoracing]

it was a msd blaster 2 coil,same as we have running for probably 10 years.the new ones are probaly made in china.not worth a ------

Did you have it mounted straight up and down or sideways?

Any Electronic part can go bad at any time, and there are some bad out of the box of everything also without a doubt. I can count on one hand the times I have had a coil go bad and have a few fingers left. Coils mounted incorrectly, wired wrong and bad grounds will kill them quickly. Blaster 2 coils are oil filled, oil filled coils require mounting so the terminals and spark plug wire terminal are up. Many people mount them horizontally and that allows the oil to move away from some of the windings causing them to run hot and fail. You will also need to keep the coil wire as short as you can. I have seen a bunch of cars that would mount them in the drivers box and have a 3ft coil wire, this will kill them also.

MSD will even tell you to mount it vertically if you are going to mount it horizontally you need an epoxy filled unit.

[Egoracing]

Page 7 of the MSD wiring diagrams and tech notes;

• The MSD Blaster Coils and any other oil-filled, canister style coils should be mounted so that the high voltage coil tower is pointed upward. Also, mount the coil so the coil wire is as short as possible to keep resistance low.

[hot rock]

yes it was mounted streight up,

[Egoracing]

yes it was mounted streight up,

I searched around but found nothing about it but I know that on drag cars they used to recommend them to be mounted at about a 45 degree angle front to rear so the forces generated during acceleration did not uncover the windings when the oil reacted. I used to mount our asphalt coils that was to the outside of the track so cornering forces did not cause the oil to uncover them.
Like I said before, there is always a chance of a bad electronic part, we had a $18,000 cable certifier at work for cat 5E, cat6 and fiber certification. We bought it and tested about 20 runs when the thing started giving off results and failing cable runs. We got our older unit and they all passed. The new tester had to be sent back and they replaced it as several attempts at repairing it did not work.