FLAGMAN or TOWER who should run the SHOW...???

[DirtClassic]

Over the years at a lot of tracks I attended, you always hear folks say that the tower should leave the flagman alone, and let him flag the race. Do you think the flagmen of today, get influenced too much by the tower.....????? Should the tower stay out of it and put two flagmen up in the flag stand and one on the backstretch, and let them run the show, with no interference from the tower.....????

[kidrock]

The flagman should be in control of the race.

[AmickRacing]

Around my area, I honestly don't even the flagman throws the yellow until he's told to (and there's clearly an obvious reason for it to be thrown).

Personally I don't know that there's a right and wrong location. But there needs to be 1 person making the calls (except for safety), and that person be as unbiased as possible. If there's question on the call, ask other officials for their view.

[DirtClassic]

Off Topic.............. But...............

Awesome Picture Amick Racing...........

[lokwaidid]

you would need at least 2 for the flagmen to be in charge. the raceceivers are controled by the tower which makes a difference. a eldora, where the flagman can't see half of the track, he is not any more than decoration. the tower always has a better view.

[J. Steve Davis]

You need more than one pair of eyes to call a race. Getting that caution light on a second or two sooner could make a big difference for the safety of the drivers. Caution lights in every turn on a speedway has been a big improvement.

[427c.i.]

If the tower is going to call the race, is a flagman even necessary? A set of lights and a start/finish point could take the place of the waver.

[dualdj1]

You need 1 person with the authority to make the call. As always, there's no way that person will see everything, so he/she needs a good crew that is trusted to provide information. But you can't have multiple people trying to make the call; you need 1 person to interpret the information coming in, and make the best educated decision possible. At our track, that's the flagman. Other places, that might not work as well, but generally speaking it should be the flagman's call, with good input from his crew and the tower if deemed appropriate.

[vande07]

I think it's got to be a combination of the two.

The flagman needs to be in total control of the starts/restarts, but he needs help to ensure the safety of every competitor (and fan) when the races are going on.

Good radio communication is a key. Have spotters around the track (as well as in the tower) to radio the flagman in the event that a car stops on the track or crashes in their line of sight (they would have a SPECIFIC area of the track that is their responsiblity). They don't have any flags, controls over the lights, etc, just a direct radio link to the flagstand. The flagman makes the calls on jumped starts. (This is how Knoxville Raceway does it and it seems to work very well). It is virtually impossible these days for most flagmen to see the entire track (especially if the infield is the pit area), heck, a lot of spectators can't see the entire track and they are MUCH higher than the flagstand.

However, I do believe that the tower needs to have an over-ride switch for the lights for EMERGENCY situations only. Case in point, a few years ago there was a wreck directly at the flagstand in Knoxville (winged sprints) where a car flipped and the flagman was hit as the car passed (luckily he wasn't injured seriously). However, he was knocked down and the back-uyp flagman was also knocked down (by the flagman as he fell). Another Raceway employee ran up the ladder to the flagstand (within seconds), hit the red lights and assisted the flagman to ensure no injuries (the safety crew was also to him within 30 seconds.

[dualdj1]

However, I do believe that the tower needs to have an over-ride switch for the lights for EMERGENCY situations only. Case in point, a few years ago there was a wreck directly at the flagstand in Knoxville (winged sprints) where a car flipped and the flagman was hit as the car passed (luckily he wasn't injured seriously). However, he was knocked down and the back-uyp flagman was also knocked down (by the flagman as he fell). Another Raceway employee ran up the ladder to the flagstand (within seconds), hit the red lights and assisted the flagman to ensure no injuries (the safety crew was also to him within 30 seconds.

I think for the most part the mandate of raceceivers at most tracks has taken care of that need, but is definitely good to have backup plans.

[superdirt]

Flagman is on top of the track and only can see 1/2 of the track at any given time. Tower must be involved.

[dualdj1]

Flagman is on top of the track and only can see 1/2 of the track at any given time. Tower must be involved.

I think there is some ambiguity here. *Spotters* must be involved, whether they are in the corner, tower, wherever. When people say Tower, they traditionally refer to the scorekeepers, which IMO should NOT be involved. That being said, I think having a spotter in the tower (likely the voice on the raceceivers) is a good idea.

[Bubba Smith]

Most of the time the flaggerman is drunk so I'd say the people up there should make the calls.

[MonteBuckNutz]

Tower should be in charge...they are the ones scoring the race

[71Cougar]

The flagman needs to control the race but obviously he can't see everything especially when cars are lapped and they are running all over the track. But by control I mean don't let the drivers run the show. At Peoria Saturday, #289 modified was ticked he was sent to the back after he caused a caution and stopped infront of flag stand and flipped the flagman off. Next time around the flagman black flagged him but the jerk wouldn't leave and black flagged him again next lap and they were ready to go green both times. Flagman gave up as 289 was holding up the show and ticking off the fans so he just threw the green next time. I would like to have seen the flagman come down and have track officials escort him off the track and take control of it. Hopefully, there are repercussions for that driver. Half the drivers at Peoria are hotheads anyway.

On a side note in the early 70's at FALS the flagman took no crap off anybody. I remember one race they couldn't get a good start and after about the third try the flagman came off the stand and stopped the cars and then started the race from a dead stop standing in between the front row. I was a youngun then so dont know who he was but he was a tough SOB!

[superdirt]

I think there is some ambiguity here. *Spotters* must be involved, whether they are in the corner, tower, wherever. When people say Tower, they traditionally refer to the scorekeepers, which IMO should NOT be involved. That being said, I think having a spotter in the tower (likely the voice on the raceceivers) is a good idea.

Tower most definitely does not mean scorers. Scorers watch the start/finish line and thats it. Their involvement is getting the cars in the correct order. Most organizations have some kind of race director that sits in the tower and oversees the program. The flagman is not in the best position with his closeness to the track to see everything and even the best flagman needs "eyes in the sky" to assist. A well-run organization is a team collaborative between the flagman, race director and spotters.

[Pops15]

A well-run organizations are a team collaborative between the flagman, race director and spotters.

Bingo! We have a winner!

[HighMaintenance2007]

Tower has first call.

A well-run crew, when one is is doubt, will go around the horn on the radio, asking what what each man saw.


A Nascar flagman is there for TV ...except for smelling a car that make be leaking..& signaling the driver..& the move-over flag..

[lazyifoto]

The flagman can throw a caution flag and the tower can make a call but if you pi$$ the track owners off -> your a$$ is out of there....

[dualdj1]

Tower most definitely does not mean scorers. Scorers watch the start/finish line and thats it. Their involvement is getting the cars in the correct order. Most organizations have some kind of race director that sits in the tower and oversees the program. The flagman is not in the best position with his closeness to the track to see everything and even the best flagman needs "eyes in the sky" to assist. A well-run organization is a team collaborative between the flagman, race director and spotters.

I guess that's what I was getting at. Just as Tower doesn't always mean scorers, Flagman sometimes means Race Director as well.

Should the flagman NOT have the Race Director duties as well, or is it ok for the flagman to handle both jobs?