SKYLARK The Ultimate IMCA Stock Car

[DaveBauerSS6]

Here is another pic of the rear frame. The bushing ended up in the oem place after spacing it under the 2x3. By their rules back then and now it couldnt slide it needed to be tack welded or silicone welded...

Looks plenty strong. So where did you mount the fuel cell? Where did you mount the lead?

[DaveBauerSS6]

They dont stick to the rules, they have changed them over and over and over.

This year during the season IMCA changed our cage dimensions because one chassis builder didnt use a tape measure and built a bunch of illegal cars over the winter last year. Same guy was moving upper a arm mounts for years so they finally made that legal after a few years.


roller rockers, no roller rocker, roller tips, back to roller rockers.

Are you referring to the 76" rule, engine to main hoop?

[DaveBauerSS6]

My guess would be that your boy is about racing age?

LoL Blockbuster and dirt racing dont go together!

I understand about leafs going dead. I have a small mfg that Ive been working with and the life has looked good on the cars running them. This Skylark will be a step up and we'll see how they hold up to more punishment.

[Krooser]

My first win was in my first ever oval track race and it was in a chrylser 4 door imperial or something big and green like that. It was a 100 to win 100 lap enduro and you drew from hat for which of the 30 track prepared cars you got to drive. I qualified 3rd fast time and started 27th and was leading on lap two.

Funny.... my first win was in MY first race in a '59 Chrysler we called The Dinosaur circa 1970... darn near won a special Un Ford-Chevy race that same night but the carb sputtered on the last lap and I took 2nd...

[C10]

Unibody must tie rear frame to front frame. Frame may be “X” braced. No Camaros, Firebirds or Mustangs.



Right out of my IMCA rule book. Sean Walker , IMCA tech, Independence Motor Speedway

[DaveBauerSS6]

Unibody must tie rear frame to front frame. Frame may be “X” braced. No Camaros, Firebirds or Mustangs.



Right out of my IMCA rule book. Sean Walker , IMCA tech, Independence Motor Speedway

I've read that. So whats the point you are trying to make?

[sj valley dave]

Hey Dave, I remember we had a Hurricane (Smotherman) chassis built for us back in the early 2000's...he used cage and front hoops to connect front and rear on the Camaro...After running it a season we noticed by jacking up the RF corner it showed a little flex before the RR came up, measured and verified...Johnny cut and then welded in 2x2 from front to rear and the flex was 100% gone...zero...

[DaveBauerSS6]

I would say your front hoop and rear bars meet the criteria of connecting the sub frames..

BUT theres still no reason you cant slit the floor and put in a straight piece of 2x3 like I did to connect them a little better, then you could go from the cage to them and when you feel ambitios ditch the oem floor, firewall, rockers and have a real tube chassis!

MERRY CHRISTMAS! I'll consider the 2x3, I just cut the quarters off the pan. I plan on cutting thru the floor to the top of the front leaf spring buckets and support them off the bottom of the cage. Your pictures are the only IMCA Nova I've seen, so I'm stepping carefully.

Hey Dave, I remember we had a Hurricane (Smotherman) chassis built for us back in the early 2000's...he used cage and front hoops to connect front and rear on the Camaro...After running it a season we noticed by jacking up the RF corner it showed a little flex before the RR came up, measured and verified...Johnny cut and then welded in 2x2 from front to rear and the flex was 100% gone...zero...

I remember that car, innovative. Smotherman thinks outside the box.I built my second SS the same with full 2x3. Tech wouldnt let it run untill the Bud Nats due to some issues. They made it legal next season.Who's Hurricane was it that Chad made them cut that connector? His reason was it made it a full frame. The game never changes.

[C10]

My point is you have to tie the front and rear sub frames together with either 2X3 or round, how ever you do it they have to be connected underneath because the car if involved in a bad wreck will bow up compromising the driver area.

[DaveBauerSS6]

My point is you have to tie the front and rear sub frames together with either 2X3 or round, how ever you do it they have to be connected underneath because the car if involved in a bad wreck will bow up compromising the driver area.

I understand where the front clip ends. Where do you think the rear clip begins?

Wondering how many of these uni-bodies you have running at Independence?

Any pics to show where they tied in?

Tx for your help.

[DaveBauerSS6]

I would say your front hoop and rear bars meet the criteria of connecting the sub frames..

BUT theres still no reason you cant slit the floor and put in a straight piece of 2x3 like I did to connect them a little better, then you could go from the cage to them and when you feel ambitios ditch the oem floor, firewall, rockers and have a real tube chassis!

The way the rules are written specific for the metric and the uni-bodies are side notes, there is a very large window of interpretation for the uni-body.
Like you describe, I don't think anyone would like the car after I built it.

[C10]

Last sub frame we had in Indee was in 94 IIRC. just connect the two under the car and you will be fine. The rules clearly state they must be connected together that means front to rear sub frame to sub frame, not trying to piss you off just trying to help by telling you what my rule book states, and as a licensed IMCA tech inspector, this is what I clearly see.

[DaveBauerSS6]

Last sub frame we had in Indee was in 94 IIRC. just connect the two under the car and you will be fine. The rules clearly state they must be connected together that means front to rear sub frame to sub frame, not trying to piss you off just trying to help by telling you what my rule book states, and as a licensed IMCA tech inspector, this is what I clearly see.

Sean...First you cant piss me off. I'm not sure which is bigger, my balls or my ego.I can tell you they are both tough. I've changed a lot of rule books.
If that's the rule , I want to understand it and install it to my benefit. I'm trying to understand what and where you consider the rear sub frame.
The definition of sub frame is the independent front clip structure that is bolted to the pan (floor). The word uni-body comes into play with the rest of the car, including the rear clip area. I call it the rear clip area due to the mounting points for the leaf springs. That is not a removable sub frame.
I don't understand where the rear clip begins. If I run tubing from the rear of the front sub, where should this tubing end/ attach to?

Since Jeff observed my missed opportunity, whats your thoughts on running tubing from the end of the front clip past the front leaf spring mounts, under the frame rail that I have running over the formed rear rails that's part of the trunk? And removing the stock floor as the rules state, since the car will have a frame that extends front to rear. The leaf would be mount a stock points, no front adjustment etc??

Thanks for you input.

[DaveBauerSS6]

Last sub frame we had in Indee was in 94 IIRC. just connect the two under the car and you will be fine. The rules clearly state they must be connected together that means front to rear sub frame to sub frame, not trying to piss you off just trying to help by telling you what my rule book states, and as a licensed IMCA tech inspector, this is what I clearly see.

Checking the pics on the Indee web site , I see you have a yellow 95 car and a red 10 car that look like Camaro bodies. Are they your IMCA Hobby Stocks? If so, how did they mount the connectors? Nice car count on the points page.

[DaveBauerSS6]

2x3 fits inside the rear unitized rails, I dont remember how I did the front part, but I believe it lines up with the rear and I notched the 2x3 to over lap some and butt welded it to the end of the oem front clip?

I already posted the best pics I have of my sub frame construction, the rest of the pics I have of that car are on my photo bucket, I just uploaded them to be able to post them on here.

Ive seen quite a few camaros here that ran the oem front leaf mount and all of them at one time or another tore all that out of the car. There are two nascar tracks within a hour of me that have some camaros still. theres even a ford coil car with leafs in the rear, lol..

I've notched the rear clip area and inserted a 2x3 also, it fit in there well on several Camaros.
Yes, the front bucket of the leaf is held in with 3 3/8 screws in the sheet metal frame. Not very tough for racing.

So you stopped your new connector at the front leaf spring bucket, left the stock frame (sheetmetal) thru the firewall untill the similar spot after the rear end as the metrics and started 2x3 again to the rear crossmember?

[C10]

Yes there are a few Camaros shown on the website, but those are rebuilt Late Models for Nostalgia or Legends racers. The 10 car is a replica of Gary Crawfords car, and the 95 is a replica of Ed Sangers car from back in the day. Both are Sanger Chassis actually resurrected from rotting in the ground.
I have built leaf cars in the past, we stopped the connectors at the front leaf spring pocket, or torque box, and plated the pocket on the outsides and through the center of it to make it stronger. How you attach the connectors is pretty much up to you, but IIRC they could not extend back any further then reasonable. I know there was a exact measurement at one time. As far as adjustment goes, the last wording I had received on it was no extra holes in the front and pretty much how ever many you want at the shackle. Some what in line with the adjustment they give for the lowers on the Metrics. But heres the thing, with no written rule for this, if you wanted to move the left one up a bit and weld the factory hole shut, who would really be the wiser? It seems that everyone at IMCA is on vacation because of the Holidays, I tried to call Tom G, Brett Root, and Kirk Nehause today and went straight to voice mail but I will keep trying for you. I am here to help any I can and yes, we do have very good car counts!

[DaveBauerSS6]

Yes there are a few Camaros shown on the website, but those are rebuilt Late Models for Nostalgia or Legends racers. The 10 car is a replica of Gary Crawfords car, and the 95 is a replica of Ed Sangers car from back in the day. Both are Sanger Chassis actually resurrected from rotting in the ground.
I have built leaf cars in the past, we stopped the connectors at the front leaf spring pocket, or torque box, and plated the pocket on the outsides and through the center of it to make it stronger. How you attach the connectors is pretty much up to you, but IIRC they could not extend back any further then reasonable. I know there was a exact measurement at one time. As far as adjustment goes, the last wording I had received on it was no extra holes in the front and pretty much how ever many you want at the shackle. Some what in line with the adjustment they give for the lowers on the Metrics. But heres the thing, with no written rule for this, if you wanted to move the left one up a bit and weld the factory hole shut, who would really be the wiser? It seems that everyone at IMCA is on vacation because of the Holidays, I tried to call Tom G, Brett Root, and Kirk Nehause today and went straight to voice mail but I will keep trying for you. I am here to help any I can and yes, we do have very good car counts!

I'll follow Jeffs pics and run tubing off the front clip along side the front leaf spring buckets and end at the rear of the bucket. That dose offer a few other ways to support the bucket. Remind Brett I'm the guy he made a deal with on promoting the Stock Cars at Hanford. He will remember. We almost doubled the car count by the last race and I see more comming. Tom was the one I talked to about the shackles.

Thanks for the reply; I do want it looking legal. I have another car in this class and dont want any issues. You know how it goes when you beat the $hit out of them; the crying begins.

[C10]

Yes Jeff's pics are spot on as usual, he does very nice work. I totally understand about the crying, but haters are motivators as they say. Hopefully I helped yah out a bit, and I will be sure to mention that to Brett. I can tell you that the front end of that car has better geometry options then the metric, and I think you will like it. Built a few limited late/ pro stocks with that front end because everyone here was over looking them. My brother went on to win over 25 races with that front stub on a Harris late model frame. Should have gold plated that car and hung it from the roof of the shop! Oh, and it was a leaf car too running against 4 bars no less . Keep up the good work !

[DaveBauerSS6]

Sean.... any word on novas running tube upper a arms? Even the metric sticker tube would work.

[C10]

I will get offical word on that but I say as long as their the sticker a frame its good to go.