Why aren't more top teams using the LS type engines?

[Doc88D]

Im not talking about the CT525. But rather a full blown LS type engine with the front drive adapter plate that allows you to use the distributor. It is reported that there is well over 800 HP being made in these engines. And the cost of new is about half the cost of a Roush/yates,D!ckens, Cornett, etc...

Doc
www.Dowdyracing.com

[perfconn]

Because they won't make the power of a good 13* engine or the latest 8*-9* engines.m

[hall99]

I do believe I rember seeing that Bloomer did some testing with one of the LS motors 2 or 3 years ago.

[hucktyson]

Im not talking about the CT525. But rather a full blown LS type engine with the front drive adapter plate that allows you to use the distributor. It is reported that there is well over 800 HP being made in these engines. And the cost of new is about half the cost of a Roush/yates,D!ckens, Cornett, etc...

Doc
www.Dowdyracing.com

Because they are not half the cost , they would likely be the same cost or more , and a spread bore 10 degree 430 will make more power than you would ever need .

[hall99]

Because they are not half the cost , they would likely be the same cost or more , and a spread bore 10 degree 430 will make more power than you would ever need .

What is the most comming head used on the spread bore motors?

[perfconn]

Dart 8* and 9*
Here is a good example:
INCLUDES 4.5 BORE SPACING CUSTOM DART BLOCK WITH OPTIONS.

9*CUSTOM CNC PORTED HEADS WITH LATEST PORT DESIGNS.

4" CROWER BILLET CRANKSHAFT WITH OPTIONS.

DYERS RODS WITH BOLT UPGRADE.

9* PISTONS WITH CUSTOM RING PACKAGE.

FULLY PREPPED CUSTOM INTAKE MANIFOLD.

T&D ROCKER SYSTEM.

CALIBRATED CARB INCLUDED. ALL BEST PARTS AND COMPONENTS. INCLUDES DUAL IGNITION.

AVAILABLE IMMEDIATELY. FRESH OFF DYNO.

$24,000.00

[hall99]

Dart 8* and 9*
Here is a good example:
INCLUDES 4.5 BORE SPACING CUSTOM DART BLOCK WITH OPTIONS.

9*CUSTOM CNC PORTED HEADS WITH LATEST PORT DESIGNS.

4" CROWER BILLET CRANKSHAFT WITH OPTIONS.

DYERS RODS WITH BOLT UPGRADE.

9* PISTONS WITH CUSTOM RING PACKAGE.

FULLY PREPPED CUSTOM INTAKE MANIFOLD.

T&D ROCKER SYSTEM.

CALIBRATED CARB INCLUDED. ALL BEST PARTS AND COMPONENTS. INCLUDES DUAL IGNITION.

AVAILABLE IMMEDIATELY. FRESH OFF DYNO.

$24,000.00

That would be a huge engine. Have been told a lot of people run a 13 degree head with a smaller crank on these would you think that would be a better combo for an all around motor?

[perfconn]

Never personaly owned a 450ci 9* motor but have talked to several people that have owned one and they hate them.They claim that they won't run worth a hoot.Everything is so big they have no response.The intake ports are big enough too throw a cat through.They like the 13* 4.125 bore engines much better.I was told that Clements Race Engines won't even build the 8* and 9* engines.They prefer the 13*/11* head.Thats a head with a 13* intake valve and a 11* exhaust valve.
Perhaps the question should have been: Are ANY of the top teams using the LS engine and the answer is no.
The LS engine that Bloomquist ran was actually in a race at Smoky Mountain Speedway.He had coil packs on it and they were outlawed the following Monday.

[hucktyson]

That would be a huge engine. Have been told a lot of people run a 13 degree head with a smaller crank on these would you think that would be a better combo for an all around motor?

Look what Cornett is building and their is your answer , Cornett and rousch Yates are both using the newest 10 degree brodix head , everyone I ever talked to said 9 degree motors are undriveable light switches unless its hammer down conditions

[let-r-eat]

All depends on track conditions and driver. I've seen 9* win on slick tracks and have seen them lapped on slick tracks. Have seen the 11/13 setup get blew off the road with the 9 and vice versa. Power isn't the end all be all. You just have to have enough. I've seen a good 18* degree engine blow them both off the track. All around its gonna be what the driver likes. I could see where any of these engines can be built to the light switch characteristic. They all flow tons of air and lazy is always gonna be a problem trying to run an engine suited for 8+ at 3500 on these slick tracks.

[F22 RAPTOR]

Im not talking about the CT525. But rather a full blown LS type engine with the front drive adapter plate that allows you to use the distributor. It is reported that there is well over 800 HP being made in these engines. And the cost of new is about half the cost of a Roush/yates,D!ckens, Cornett, etc...

Doc
www.Dowdyracing.com

I don't understand why the LS/CT525 gets so much friction from the powers that be. The coil pack argument is lame and frankly hypocritical considering what ignitions systems are already in use. I myself would like to see the LS engine allowed to run the coil pack system on more than just the CT525 setup. It doesn't have to be a 900HP to get the job done but there is a lot of room between 525HP and 900HP to build an economical package. I agree if you go all out it would be just as expensive as an 8 or 9 deg motor, but maybe those are too much for most places anyway, like some others have pointed out already.

[Rocky]

An LSX isn't a cheap engine by any means. I HEAR that the street car aluminium blocks aren't strong enough for the power these things can actually make (but I also hear the Iron truck motor blocks are). The coil pack argument is ignorant at best, why does it matter if a car has 8 coils on it or one? EVERYBODY runs computer controlled ignition. If they both have a carb on them, who cares?

Nobody is going to run one till they see one winning, then guys will buy them. Cost don't matter much I guess. Somebody would just have to spend the money develop one with a distributor, which I hear can be retrofitted and go out and do some real winning with it and it would be sellable. Till somebody does that, it'll just be something to chat about around here.

[Egoracing]

Rocky, Bloomquist already did it, did not win and the multi coil setup is not legal in WOO or Lucas races. They do not use computer controlled Ignitions, and there has been a distributor drive for them for about 5 years now.

[Jonezy]

Never personaly owned a 450ci 9* motor but have talked to several people that have owned one and they hate them.They claim that they won't run worth a hoot.Everything is so big they have no response.The intake ports are big enough too throw a cat through.They like the 13* 4.125 bore engines much better.I was told that Clements Race Engines won't even build the 8* and 9* engines.They prefer the 13*/11* head.Thats a head with a 13* intake valve and a 11* exhaust valve.
Perhaps the question should have been: Are ANY of the top teams using the LS engine and the answer is no.
The LS engine that Bloomquist ran was actually in a race at Smoky Mountain Speedway.He had coil packs on it and they were outlawed the following Monday.

I have a wide bore 434 9 degree. They are a whole different animal compared to the 18 and 13 degree stuff. We had a big hp 13 that we used a big carb on, the 9 wouldn't fall out of a tree with it and was very hard to drive. We talked to Stealth carb's about it and he built us a small carb for it and it runs like a champ. Manageable in all conditions, responsive, and makes great hp. The Brodix 10 is suppossed to be the new engine of choice, for now we r happy with the 9 but it did take lots of trial and error to get it where we liked it

[Rocky]

AN MSD box isn't a computer? Sorry, but it is. Any solid state ignition has is s simple computer. The Bloomquist engine that stirred all the crap years ago was built by Fletcher Made up in Winchester, Va. IT DID have coil packs. Not a dizzy. Like I say win one big race sell 100 motors, otherwise, you don't sell any. It's that dang simple. Nobody is gonna go get an LS out of a Camaro in the Junkyard trick it out and win the World 100. EVER. There's already better stuff for sale.

As I said I KNOW you can put a distributor on it. I said build a winner and sell engines. NOT gonna happen.

[jrkracing54]

AN MSD box isn't a computer? Sorry, but it is. Any solid state ignition has is s simple computer. The Bloomquist engine that stirred all the crap years ago was built by Fletcher Made up in Winchester, Va. IT DID have coil packs. Not a dizzy. Like I say win one big race sell 100 motors, otherwise, you don't sell any. It's that dang simple. Nobody is gonna go get an LS out of a Camaro in the Junkyard trick it out and win the World 100. EVER. There's already better stuff for sale.

As I said I KNOW you can put a distributor on it. I said build a winner and sell engines. NOT gonna happen.

I thought that Bloomquist ordeal was a Vic Hill engine? I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure Hill told me his engine of choice is a SB2. I also have a friend who has a couple 9* dart engines by Propower and I think he likes them. He runs alot of big tracks though. John 1*

[F22 RAPTOR]

AN MSD box isn't a computer? Sorry, but it is. Any solid state ignition has is s simple computer. The Bloomquist engine that stirred all the crap years ago was built by Fletcher Made up in Winchester, Va. IT DID have coil packs. Not a dizzy. Like I say win one big race sell 100 motors, otherwise, you don't sell any. It's that dang simple. Nobody is gonna go get an LS out of a Camaro in the Junkyard trick it out and win the World 100. EVER. There's already better stuff for sale.

As I said I KNOW you can put a distributor on it. I said build a winner and sell engines. NOT gonna happen.

My point exactly. MSD=Multiple Spark Discharge, sounds a lot like having individual coil packs for each cylinder to me. No idea what Bloomquist ran, but would like to see rules amended to allow the multiple coil packs on LS engines.

[perfconn]

I was there and it was an LS engine and it wasn't built by Vic Hill and it didn't win either.

[Egoracing]

AN MSD box isn't a computer?

Calling a 6AL a computer is like calling a $3 calculator a computer, It takes an actual computer to run the multi coil setup. With a single distributor you may have had a deal to get it done but a large part of the advantage may have been taken away with the computer and coil packs..

Lucas Rules;
MISCELLANEOUS:
C. NO computer controlled devices of any kind permitted.

WOO has this rule;
In the event that there are new engine components and/or a new engine configuration
they must be submitted per the World Racing Group submission requests prior to
being introduced into competition.

I think that is for of they are not familiar with the engine or part they can say no.

[Rocky]

I suppose so, but all you really need to run coil packs is a crank signal (and in some applications a cam signal.) You don't need MAF, or ECT or TPS signal.

All it does is what advance weights used to do on regular distributors before racers stopped using them locked their distributors solid and started running their advance curve through the MSD box. I can see why there would be a reason to keep this technology out. Because what may start out as poor boys with junk yard motors would end up with every 13 and 9 degree etc retrofitted for them. Then a cheated box would let you run a V6 on short slick tracks and a monster on bigger tracks, without changing the engine I mean you could maybe. If it as legal for LS style motors, you'd have to let everybody else.