IMCA Open motor guys. Question about this years performance.

[Modlitefan0]

Hey guys, I currently help an IMCA mod and have for the past 3 years. As you know, IMCA allowed the crate to come in this year and it is out there stomping every one. My question:Are you running an open motor and had troubles hooking up compared to years of the past? And are you all of a sudden having issues with chunking out tires or having them glaze over really easy?

[HEAVY DUTY]

If the crate motor is beating everyone, do you think that maybe most open motors are too powerful? What other advantage would the crates have? Do you think the 3" spoiler adds much? I don't know, I am curious. I run in UMP country, and am interested in what is happening out west. If they would let the AR 604 back in, it would probably cure the tire issues. It is a shame that all sanctioning bodies sell out to Hoosier and make us racers pay.

[charcoal01]

I wouldn't say were all of a sudden having traction problems, I just think forward bite or lack there of shows up against the crates because they have an advantage. I wish this was a topic more highly talked about because I think it is a junk rule but imca its happy padding their pockets so they aren't saying much. The crate is an aluminum headed motor (easier to transfer weight) a spoiler (more rear downforce, more forward bite) and while not a true roller cam motor, its for all intents and purposes a roller cam, so its smoother. All things that make a car faster, especially in the slick. You couple that with that fact guys are running nitro, I know this for sure, and getting almost 500 hp out of them when you couple the nitro and methanol and you can see pretty quickly why the truck motors are kicking the open motors ass. Its infuriating as a guy who built three nice open motors and if the rules stay the same, they're almost obsolete. Thanks for nothing, imca.

Any ways, tires may have changed a bit, but I haven't seen much chunking. Hopefully that answers your question.

[racinjj]

I dont get the excuses from the guys with the open motors and why the crates beat them. To me they all say the same thing, it has an advantage because it has less power. Hmmm, maybe you dont need a 700hp torque monster to run on a hard 8" tire. I consistently run lap times with my sportmod with the 602 crate that put in the top 5 of the A-mods. We recently had two sportmod guys run with the A-mods, 100% sportmod legal, and finish in the top 5. To me it seems like too many guys have to much power for what the tires can handle but dont want to admit it. Its much easier to drive and setup a car that has the peak power level at or below the limit of the tire. I have run my sportmod and A-mod with and without a spoiler and really havent noticed a difference handling wise. I just dont see even with the spoiler and aluminum heads how those can be seen as an advantage when the engine makes 100-200hp less than most open motors.

I was talking with one of my customers and he was mentioning that the tires seem different this year. They seem to wear a little different, no chunking or blistering but not wearing the same as years past. I cant say I have noticed much difference though.

I am curious as to what others have seen too, I am surprised this isnt talked about more.

[charcoal01]

Is that a serious question about nitro?

[Leftterns]

Seems like the A Mods that run well and win and don't face the traction issues here all have the r2c spacer that kills 70-100 HP so what's the answer? Driver application of throttle, discipline, or mechanical regulation of power/less motor.
Crates don't compete well everywhere and regardless of conditions.

[Modlitefan0]

Sorry about the delay guys. I headed to the shop after I posted this morning and didnt have access to a computer. I guess I will give you a little more background about the situation. We have been won points at a track the last few years and last year we won well over 50% of the features at the track. This year, the track is being prepped a lot different where it is dry enough that a open motor cant compete even with it being a 1/2 mile track. But, I learned a lot today. The main reason I asked and some of you did mention it earlier was about tires. Last week, here in IA, we had a sportmod who they thought was dopin tires and that ended bringing up that IMCA had Hoosier making the tires different this year. SUPPOSEDLY, they are mixing plastic in with the rubber so that the high rpm open motors are burning the tires off early in the feature and the crates dont have any problem. Case and point tonight. We started on the pole and ran top 2/3 for about 5-8 laps and finally the crates took over and blew everyones doors off. 8 cars started the feature and 1-4 were crates and 5-8 were open cars. Anywho, the guys bringing up the point about killing horsepower think the problem is the horsepower but it is not. There have been 2 open motors built as close to the crate motor as you can get. 500 hp and the same weight as the crate yet they have not been able to even touch them. A gentleman that races modifieds was at the track helping a LM guy and they were pitted next to us. He was telling us that earlier this year he put in a crate and his feedback was "you will put in a crate and think it is the dumbest thing ever... until feature time when you are blowing peoples doors off. You will put it to the floor and just drive. In the heat race you will be lucky to make the invert but by feature time the open cars dont stand a chance." I never thought I would hear my driver say we need a crate until tonight. Next week we have 4 shows in a row that pay $1000 or more to win and there is no point for us to even show up. We dont want to sell out our engine builder(has won SuperNationals 2 or 3 times) because he just told us the other day that the crates are going to put him out of business, but what choice do we have. There really is no other choices around here for sanctions besides IMCA. A couple of NASCAR tracks but they are 2+ hours away. I am hoping that IMCA makes some changes to maybe 5" for a crate and 3" for open and maybe give the opens aluminum heads, but it is not in there best interests when they have all of their eggs in one basket with this crate.

[LITE-INN]

tel the to bring that crate to UMP and plan to get its A@@ kicked

[rustymod]

i see your plight and thanks for sharing.. I have to say in UMP country its the other way around. The norm is the 18 deg motor if you are serious about running up front. you have to have that power in the heat to get a decent spot in the feature. Steel heads are a waste of time and money in UMP as well. Mullins engine or better is the order of the day and YES you can hook it up with the UMP tire.
I hate to hear that IMCA is catering to the crates and i really surprised about this on the 1/2 mile deal. please keep us updated as to what you are trying to remedy this, I for one do not want to see an all crate IMCA class. that would stink.

[LITE-INN]

crates should be used in sportsman or less

[Modlitefan0]

The 4th race is at DSM Friday night. 1000 to win for modifieds.

[stockcar5]

The imca hoosier definitely changed but i dont believe imca had anything to do with it. Hoosier has worse problems with heir wissota tire. They are actually changing the tire midseason to a new design and some guys have been able to get new tires by trading in their old design tires.

[Duckhnter83]

Open motor mods are saying the same thing at my local track to. There is something different they don't last and they complain at the way they are grinding now compared to years past. They are also having problems with them chunking when they had never had the problem before. They all talk about American racer tires and how they want them back

[rustymod]

The imca hoosier definitely changed but i dont believe imca had anything to do with it. Hoosier has worse problems with heir wissota tire. They are actually changing the tire midseason to a new design and some guys have been able to get new tires by trading in their old design tires.

Would not stun me if this was Hoosier deal, they have been putting plastic in the a40 for years which glazes over. Imca may not be the culprit...unlike ump you can simply call Tom at imca and get a straight response.

With ump with get a bunch of bs. Call Sam find out that in a 3 state region you maybe able to run the d40' and then 100 miles away its a40 only...it's all hosed up

[mod557]

Modlite, interesting post. Quick question, how is anybody able to build an IMCA open engine anywhere near the same weight as the 604? We have been building them IMCA mod engines for years and cant do it. We have actually weighed the 604, 378 pounds as delivered. We can get closest with a stock cast iron GM Vortec head at 442 pounds. We see the biggest difference in the aftermarket heads where we are seeing 470 plus pounds. We believe you could remove the spoiler all together from the crate car and it would still be faster in the slick due to 100 pounds less nose weight, thoughts?

[charcoal01]

Imca had as lot of aftermarket parts sponsors who aren't a big fan of crates as its bad for their business. I almost guarantee there is a pretty significant change for 2014. Imca is currently cutting off thEir nose to spite their face.

[Modlitefan0]

Mod557, two different engine builders have put together engines to match the crate weight wise with a little more power. I do not know the story on the first engine builder but I know the second builder has had no luck even coming close. So far from the feedback we have been hearing a couple of different things are happening. 1) tracks are being prep different this year all across the country and it is leading to tracks being a lot drier than normal. 2) tires are not holding up for open motors. Like I said guys, a lot of this stuff was kind of pushed on me the last few days and I am just trying to piece it all together with some feedback from as many people as possible. I love that IMCA is trying to keep everything cheaper because costs are getting out of hand, but they are stacking the books against a lot of people just to make this crate work. We have been trying 2 barrels/restrictors/unhooking secondaries with no good luck but I think we will be hotlapping next week with a 3" blade on our open motor to see if that is where they are really getting us. We are only getting dominated by the crate at 1/2 mile tracks and we are thinking the spoiler is the key. When it comes to blowing the tires off, we have figured that portion out.

[mod557]

Thank you for the info, we'll have to just keep trying to figure out how to trim weight from the nose. Let us know how much of a difference you notice testing the spoiler. Thanks again

[frank 75]

It cracks me up people are complaining about getting beat by a motor that makes 400 hp.They are the same ones getting their a$$ kicked anyway. Work on you chassis set-up and driver throttle control! I agree the tire is a POS but is the same for everyone.

[Modlitefan0]

Frank you make a few valid points, but I dont think that your idea on the people that are complaining are the ones that were bad before hand. There are plenty of great drivers who have done some good things in the past that are complaining because the odds are stacked against them before they get to the track all for IMCA to make a dollar. The tracks being prepped different around the country this year is not just a fluke. For example, my driver has been in a modified for about 10 years and last night was the first time at a particular track that the modifieds had to run last. Why might you ask? Some of the things said earlier make a pretty good argument as to why they would do that.