IMCA Open motor guys. Question about this years performance.

[charcoal01]

26 of 28 cars that qualified were crate motors. Bobby hogge out of California was the other qualifier. Probably one of the best mod drivers in the West didn't make it into the show until saturday in his lcq. If you didn't have a crate, you basically had to be absolutely perfect to even have a chance at making the main. 15 of 16 cars that qualified on Thursday and friday were crate cars. It was stupid how much better they were.

[Sportmod Rookie]

IMCA needs to change something. I like the crate option but right now you have a major advantage by running one.

[stock car driver]

26 of 28 cars that qualified were crate motors. Bobby hogge out of California was the other qualifier. Probably one of the best mod drivers in the West didn't make it into the show until saturday in his lcq. If you didn't have a crate, you basically had to be absolutely perfect to even have a chance at making the main. 15 of 16 cars that qualified on Thursday and friday were crate cars. It was stupid how much better they were.

Yeah cus it would be really lame if racing A mods came down to driver skill and set up skills vs cubic inches....and $$$.

[C10]

Yeah cus it would be really lame if racing A mods came down to driver skill and set up skills vs cubic inches....and $$$.

I couldnt agree with you more Jeff. IMCA a mod racing up until 5 or 10 years ago used to be build an engine that was low buck, and set up and drive the car. Now its turned into how much money can you spend at Stoa's. I love the crate, it will save the weekly low buck racer that would otherwise hang up their shoes.

[imca43]

IMO The crate takes some of the driver skill out of the equation. I was in the pits all weekend with one of the top 3 finishers of the A main at the duel. They barely have enough power to spin the tires in the slick they were using full throttle, so throttle control is out the window now any throttle stomper that doesn't know there is something other than wide open or off the throttle will be faster. Put the 3 inch spoiler on Hogg's car and he would have made everyone look stupid. I'm not against a crate but I'm against one car having a spoiler and not the other especially on a slick half mile track like Las Vegas. Anyone that thinks the 3 inch spoiler isn't an advantage needs to put there hand out the window at 75 and imagine that 66 inches wide. As for the crate keeping the cost down in racing is bull. My open motors are 8-10 thousand in them and I can get 40 shows on them. Say you spend 8000 on an open motor run it all year with no problems you can re ring and bearing it cheaper than the guy that has to send his out and spend 2000 on freshening it. It doesn't matter if you have a cheap one or a high dallor motor they can all blow up same. The crates already have a weight advantage the body rules should be the same for every one.

[RaceTechKs]

imca43: I can't agree with you more, they should both have spoilers or take the spoiler off. But they should be the same. And if IMCA is so sure and have done all this one sided testing they say they have and the crate is no advantage THEN I CHALLENGE YOU TO TAKE THE SPOILER OFF AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. It's no secret that IMCA wants everyone on a crate, this was stated at a track meeting not very long ago and the IMCA Official that made that statement knows who he is, and he reads this forum. So I will see if he chimes in on this. All of the guys using open engines should stand up and make IMCA do something with all the crates, and if IMCA refuses move on and go race somewhere else. Only numbers will force them to do something and guys have to stick together. And just so you all know-----I hate the Crate, and if I chose to run your series why do you charge me to seal an engine with your seal when its already sealed ? OH AND C-10, YOU ARE FULL OF IT WITH YOUR LITTLE APP ON YOUR PHONE. There is no such thing, the Lith on the bolts does not tell you which dealer got the engine nor does it tell you who bought it. I can't believe anyone even bought into that. Those markings are on the bolts when there installed on the engines. If you want I can show you one or all three bolt sets I have that are still in the shrink bags I got them in from G.M. when you could still buy them. The only thing your little program does is show you the little logo. Ask the guys from the USA Crate Series that's who showed me how it works. And they don't use it they just tear the crates down and check them, then reseal them.

[Throwin' it in]

Jeff, I'll name you two drivers at one track that started winning there this year that had not really had much success there in the past 2-3 years. Josh Gilman at ISF and Jake Murray at ISF. Murray was always decent at ISF but I think he won as many if not more races there this year than he has in the past.

From what I noticed this year, and this is purely based off our weekly shows at ISF, the crate cars could drive into the corner 5-6 car lengths deeper than the open cars and I believe it was because of the weight off the nose and the spoiler. I believe if they take the spoilers off and only do that, we will see a more competitive race between the two.
With taking the spoiler off the guys will continue their research of the light weight smaller CI motors that will be more in the neighborhood of the crates. Costs will go down because there will be no need for the hogs with the best of the best parts.

All in all, one of two things is going to happen. Either IMCA will force everyone into the crate by not making any changes or over time they will make changes to even it out to where a guy will either have a crate or a smaller CI lighter weight motor. It will be a long drawn out process because you are comparing apples to oranges in my opinion.

[mod71m]

U want the spoiler the same...

What about the 6400 chip you going to run that too? Are you willing to put a 15 balancer on your motor so its the same as the crate. What about a 350cfm two barrel so all the engine options have the same hp?!

I can spin the tires in my mod anytime on the slick if they were as easy as your saying to drive there would be a bunch of NEW winners that installed crates. So far Ive asked at least a half dozen times for people to post up who won races that shouldn't have or didn't regularly win races in the past by installing a crate..

Yes I would run a 6400 chip, 350 carb, and any balancer you wish on my open motor if I could run the same spoiler.

The fact of the matter is that IMCA screwed up by picking a crate option that was so far off power wise that they had to give it a spoiler to make up for the power difference. This causes one engine option to be preferred on heavy/tight cornered small tracks, and the other to be preferred on large tracks with sweeping corners and any track once it gets slick.

In my opinion they should have went to GM and asked them to build a cast iron headed (Vortec or Bowtie Vortec head) 383 that made around 500-550 hp and no spoiler would have been necessary. The options would have been fairly equal then.

[imca43]

Stock car driver Since when do A mods run a 350 CFM 2 barrel carburetor crate or not I haven't seen it and is it a rule that you have to run a 6400 rev chip with a crate? Or is that what is recommended by gm? Put a low gear in and a 7800 chip in your crate dump truck motor see what happens probably not make it through a heat race lol. The guys up front at the due all had 1200 plus dallor slick track carbs on and most had 800 dallor tri y headers.I'm not saying anyone that runs out and puts a crate in will start winning all the time. It's a whole new game to learn how to set up a car with a dump truck motor and be fast horse power can hide a lot of chassis set up problems. IMO no one should have a spoiler or everyone should have a spoiler then if you still want to run a dump truck motor more power to you. Racing should be about who can build the best stuff and drive the fastest. If the NFL let the teams with the smallest QB start from the 50 instead of the 20 after a touch back because he is a little guy and it's not fair lol. You chose to run the dump truck motor no one forced it on you so why do you get a spoiler and not the open motor guy.

[Throwin' it in]

To hell with that 71M. If we switch to a 6400 chip, every open motor we have now has to go back to Stoa to be redone. And there is no need to mandate the 350 carb as guys will use it as an option if necessary. We used a 500 quite a bit this year trying to beat the crate. We didnt blow the tires off coming off the corners but it sure as hell didnt help us getting in which is where they were killing us.

Great point about using a different crate. The hard part was that GM only had 2 competitive options and the CT525 was even further off than the 604. Maybe they should have created a new option. There are still guys running 383s weekly at Boone. (The home of the Hog)

[stock car driver]

Jeff, I'll name you two drivers at one track that started winning there this year that had not really had much success there in the past 2-3 years. Josh Gilman at ISF and Jake Murray at ISF. Murray was always decent at ISF but I think he won as many if not more races there this year than he has in the past.

From what I noticed this year, and this is purely based off our weekly shows at ISF, the crate cars could drive into the corner 5-6 car lengths deeper than the open cars and I believe it was because of the weight off the nose and the spoiler. I believe if they take the spoilers off and only do that, we will see a more competitive race between the two.
With taking the spoiler off the guys will continue their research of the light weight smaller CI motors that will be more in the neighborhood of the crates. Costs will go down because there will be no need for the hogs with the best of the best parts.

All in all, one of two things is going to happen. Either IMCA will force everyone into the crate by not making any changes or over time they will make changes to even it out to where a guy will either have a crate or a smaller CI lighter weight motor. It will be a long drawn out process because you are comparing apples to oranges in my opinion.

Jake Murray won the non crate 10k to win race at m town too! lol.

Ur talking about dsm? really they had what 9 mods a night?

[mod88s]

There will be changes made for next year to even things out a bit so everyone calm down.

[Throwin' it in]

He sure did, but back to my point. He has never been able to do anything at DSM and now all of a sudden he throws in a crate and wins what 3 nights this year.

You do realize the competition at DSM right? 3 drivers who have won Super Nationals, the 2X defending Harris Clash winner, a guy who qualified for SN 8 years in a row 3 of which were on the front row, your poster boy for switching from open to crate back to open Jake Murray, this years Ron Little winner.... well I could keep going and include a few other drivers that raced there this year, but with you being God and not seeing it I feel I would be wasting my time.

[stock car driver]

He sure did, but back to my point. He has never been able to do anything at DSM and now all of a sudden he throws in a crate and wins what 3 nights this year.

You do realize the competition at DSM right? 3 drivers who have won Super Nationals, the 2X defending Harris Clash winner, a guy who qualified for SN 8 years in a row 3 of which were on the front row, your poster boy for switching from open to crate back to open Jake Murray, this years Ron Little winner.... well I could keep going and include a few other drivers that raced there this year, but with you being God and not seeing it I feel I would be wasting my time.

Im not a professional fanboy like you, I have no idea who your talking about at all for any of those stats you think are a big deal. I do know they had single digit for car count... which that alone could explain a guy winning 3 whole races, but since that SAME guy won the open motor only 10,000 to win show I would guess maybe he got his car or cars figured out this year more than in years past but who really knows.

Funny you wanna try act like I think I am god, Im not saying anyone didnt deserve their wins, lol..

How many wins you got?

[MM90]

"The guys up front at the due all had 1200 plus dallor slick track carbs on and most had 800 dallor tri y headers."

Tri-y headers are illegal in IMCA, so not sure what you're talking about.

[dirty white boy]

simple,..put 50lbs of lead on the crates in front of motor plate an give them a 6 inch spoiler an give the open motors a 3 inch spoiler....or let the open motors run aluminum heads an make spoiler the same for both

[imca43]

Sorry I misunderstood the info I was told dyno tuned headers that preform like a tri y. The point on the carb and headers is the cost. After Dyno Time and trick parts most don't have and the average gay can't afford the big money guys will still be beating the small timers. That 5400 cheap crate can be a lot more expensive than everyone makes it out to be.

[50j]

Yes!. It isn't like you'd be putting a 1975 thermoquad carb and homemade zoomie headers on an open motor. Either one needs a good carb and headers. If the motor lets go, you don't wreck the bolt on parts.

[imca43]

So I can just bolt on my 950 braswell on the crate and be good to go?

[50j]

Would you just bolt a crate carb on your open motor? Would your 950 Braswell work on every open motor? There would be nothing stopping you from doing it but it probably wouldn't work all that well. Anybody that wants something that works well will buy the right bolt on parts for the crate or open motor, and the cost of the parts is the same. The cost of the motor isn't, and the power they will make isn't the same either.