IMCA Open motor guys. Question about this years performance.

[Throwin' it in]

I am not saying you are wrong all the time as I have often times agreed with you on the old whowon. What I am saying is that the times you are wrong you refuse to admit it. If a guy had the ability to go back and pull it back up, I am sure we would find plenty of things you were wrong on.

[stock car driver]

I am not saying you are wrong all the time as I have often times agreed with you on the old whowon. What I am saying is that the times you are wrong you refuse to admit it. If a guy had the ability to go back and pull it back up, I am sure we would find plenty of things you were wrong on.

So u r talking about posts on whowon? 2010 and older since that sites been gone? That doesn't seem weird to you?

I don't think my wife even brings up stuff from that long ago.

[dirty white boy]

don't matter how right somebody is if there a total azz with errything they say,..well that's just wrong....attitude goes a long ways....

[avenger1]

For anybody not in this pissing match, I will ask again. Why not take a bunch of timing out of an open motor. If you are running 36* now, how about running 30*? That would take power out and help reliability. Could somebody explain why this wouldn't work?

[mod88s]

For anybody not in this pissing match, I will ask again. Why not take a bunch of timing out of an open motor. If you are running 36* now, how about running 30*? That would take power out and help reliability. Could somebody explain why this wouldn't work?

Its not all about the motor itself. Just like its not all about the spoiler itself. Just like its not about the aluminum heads taking weight off the front.. Its the overall package together. Sure you can take timing out, lots of people do. Yes it helps a little to control wheel spin. Still not as good as the crate package.

[charcoal01]

Also leads to detonation. Better ways to kill power rather than kill your motor.

[Throwin' it in]

Here is the two things we played with for part of this year to beat the crate and some other things that people played with all of which had no luck.

Both KS Engineering and Karls Performance(JRS) tried a light weight, small CI, low HP engine that would not blow the tires off. It is what Stoa ran at Night of 1000 stars and the Harris Clash. Havlik and Elliot also ran them at different points of the year. Havlik ran at the back of the pack with it in. Stoa gave up on both attempts because he didnt think it would hold up, and Elliot was I believe the 12th or 13th place finisher at the Harris Clash with it.

Now for what we tried for a few weeks was a 2 barrel and the identical gear to what the crates were running. On a track where we would normally run a 4.86 we went down to a 4.56. Neither of these options worked because as I stated above, it didnt help us getting in the corner.

Mod88s has hit the nail on the head with it being the whole package, but there will be no way for IMCA to throw out the whole package without pissing people off. SCD, for example completely changed classes because of these rules and to just throw them out because they were dominate would create a lot of backlash. I think that is part of the reason why SCD is strongly against them changing anything. As he stated, he now has 22k, if I remember right, in the game for a modified and what 5-7k will be pissed away if they stack the deck against the crate now.

The conspiracy theorist in me says that they wont change any rules as they want the crate to dominate so everyone will switch. The motivation in that theory is what I question.

[clbaker25x]

I don't understand why guys would go with the Light weight 355 instead of running something similar to what the bottom end of the crate motor is at least weight wise? A forged piston rotating assembly, has anybody looked at the fact that the extra rotating weight might be part of what helps carry the crate cars into the corners? We have some ideas we are planning to try next year and we will see what happens. Definetily not a huge crate fan, but if it keeps the modified class alive I am all for it.

[mod71m]

They are building crate killers lw in order to have the same 418lbs overall weight.

Try a 15 or 30 lb flywheel on the back if you want to try and get the same response on the track as the crate has with all its heavy parts.


Im not sure why they are so worried about the engine wt since a lot of crate cars have 25-45 bolted near a head on the left or both sides.

I agree there Jeff. The engine weight is a very small part of what is making them faster in the slick, although it doesn't hurt anything.

The crate just needs a little more power so that it isn't a disadvantage on the short tracks when the track is heavy. If they tried to solve the difference with engine power instead of with a spoiler they would have much more even competition.

[Throwin' it in]

Is it not factual because you didnt know about it or the other portion of my post where I gave an opinion. The first two paragraphs were real life things witnessed by thousands of people. How is that not factual?

[stock car driver]

Is it not factual because you didnt know about it or the other portion of my post where I gave an opinion. The first two paragraphs were real life things witnessed by thousands of people. How is that not factual?

Paul Stone also had one of Stoas theory motors in Vegas and made the show.

not factual... why I changed classes
not factual... that I don't want changes

Factual you are like a 12 year old you haven't posted where I was wrong yet, still sticking to that nagging wife like story about who won from 3 years ago and that you "probably could find something" on there I was wrong about?

AND Paul Stone U sure??

[Throwin' it in]

Well according to Stoa himself. Unless something changed in the time we talked to Stoa to when the races actually occured. You have to remember we are on the horn with Stoa on a weekly basis because we are trying to figure it out too.

[stock car driver]

Well according to Stoa himself. Unless something changed in the time we talked to Stoa to when the races actually occured. You have to remember we are on the horn with Stoa on a weekly basis because we are trying to figure it out too.

Who is WE ? The guy who's car you supposedly work on actually puts Stoa on a 3 way so you can be in on the talk too, lol..

Stoa just told me its confidential 30 seconds ago. You might want to consider that before posting in the future.

[Throwin' it in]

Well, if that is the case, I will probably get cut off from posting for awhile lol. Thats part of the reason why I was gone for awhile. I figured since it was the off season all was good.

[drive3b]

And that proved what?

[MM90]

Observations I had from the Heartland Auto Racing Show and talking with other drivers.

1. Everyone driver I talked to that has been racing mods for years that ran or is running a crate hates it. For different reasons.

2. Not one of those drivers I talked to had the same answer as to why "The crate has an advantage becasue....." Whether it be the spoiler, weight off the nose, how smooth the engine drives, or the whole package.

3. Every driver I talked to said switching to the crate cost them just as much as running one of their open engines. $10K was the number throwed around a lot.

4. One engine builder was openly advertising "factory sealed" crate engines with any HP depending on your budget. There are pictures on IMCA's facebook page of the sign. I don't know if they are a certified crate rebuilder for IMCA or not.

[drive3b]

I was also at the Heartland show and had a conversation with 2 other drivers that had switched from their open engines to crates and both agreed that they were MUCH easier to drive and worried that the crate is taking some of driving talent required to run up front out of the equation.

[CHRISTINE]

LOL so they lost there talent and bought crates. Just kidding my car will have one in 2014. Even if they allow the open motors a 3 inch spoiler the crate are still gona be right infront of them.

[drive3b]

No, they bought crates so that they could stay competitive with the current rules package. No one said anyone lost talent, just that drivers with less talent can now finish higher because of an engine that does not require as much talent to be competitive.

[lov2race]

11-02-2013, 08:40 PM #283
lov2race


Crates have a roller cam with a profile that cant be mach with a flat tappet, aluman head lighter runs cooler . gives you rear % but thats not about the motor its about the raer spoler that is the advang and light car rear %

THE BIG probelm will be cheting and will come to a head the end of next year or 2015

my opinion only thanks for reading

Revised post Cheating will come to head next year