crates future

[taterur]

Just asking what people think about the future of the crates will they go away for spec engine or steel heads. Its all high dollar racing

[Matt49]

A lot of us here in Indiana are asking ourselves similar questions. The crate division has been growing (there are about 30 cars in our area now) but the tracks around here don't seem to want to race them. We're pretty much down to just one track that runs them. You can go and run with the supers and be somewhat competitive but you can't beat them all. I know it has us in a pickle regarding what we are going to do next year. Crate racing isn't nearly as "cheap" as people make it out to be.

[rubbinsracin]

crates are about ready to die in a late model IMHO. Only one track left within driving distance of us that runs them as a crate only class, and they are only getting like 10 cars a night. the other tracks went back to a steelhead class that allows crates but do not give big weight breaks so it makes it tough on the crates.

[dirty white boy]

crates are alive an well in south east,...seems every track got 22 to 25 of them regular!!

[brad hibbard]

gotta tech them for it to survive

it doesn't have to be tear down tech or anything extreme-----there are ways of knowing whether anyone has been inside without ripping the engine into pieces in a tech shed

we do a couple dozen tech clinics a year for race track and sanctioning personel to educate them on ways of teching crate engines without a tear down

but they still have to do it and that seems to be the snag-----alot of tracks don't even take the hood off of the winning car

be glad to help with anyone that wants help

JMO

Brad

[rubbinsracin]

Biggest problem with the crate class that i can think of is that it was supposed to be a budget class. But you have a few guys that dump $50k into a new car every year and roll in with their mega hauler it stops being a budget class. our track has had only 2 or 3 cars win all year, everyone else is fighting for 4th on back.

[dirty white boy]

there is a trend of teams spending the money thay use to on built motors on high dollar custom shocks an low friction low drag lite weight components...its still a...speed cost,how fast can you afford to go deal!

[brad hibbard]

I agree with both of you on the cost of components driving up the price of racing but still the #1 cost in an open situation is engines and tires (IMO)

crate engines work well to lower the cost of the engine bill but it is up to the tracks and sanctions to maintain a level playing field on whats under the hood

as for the rest of the package---it does seem way out of hand and I don't know how you would back up without starting all over again and that rarely works well in todays economy.

[Matt49]

I've yet to see a big rig hauler win a race.
That being said, there is no such thing as "budget racing". There is budget riding around the track but if you want to be competitive you have to spend some money. If racing was cheap or easy, everybody would do it.
I don't mind crate guys spending big money on shocks. Unless you tear stuff up all the time, those are not weekly or even yearly expenses to get outfitted with the right stuff.
An open motor increases your weekly cost of racing in ways most people don't even think about. Even after purchase, the engine itself it more expensive to operate due to refresh costs and high failure rates. Fuel costs 3-5 times as much. Tires: you're going to go through a lot more of them and they aren't getting any cheaper. Drivetrain failures are also WAY more common with an open motor. The two most expensive things on these cars other than the motor is the tranny and rear-end and if properly maintained, a crate won't tear up either one for many many races. But even a well maintained tranny and rear-end are failures waiting to happen with 800+ HP going through them every lap.
Even given the current state of affairs, I'd say it costs almost twice as much to operate an open late model versus a crate. Once you have everything in place.
Tech is definitely an issue that has to be dealt with at a lot of places.

[charlie11515]

theres one create engine running in a modified here and its out running everything on wheels even in the tach, ask track if they checked it and they said it had the bolts.. just curious about the new 604 becouse its outrunning BIG motors here in the tack... i know what i have and its blowen by my car.. guess ill be checken into one for next year..

[brad hibbard]

that is one of the problems----tech personel relying on what they think is the correct bolt

how about even pulling a valve cover or looking at the intake----substantial gains can be made without breaking the engine seal---

[charlie11515]

if im buying on from you brad do you dyno the motors? im in texas so im sure freight would be a little more,, just want to get the most for my money

[charlie11515]

if im buying on from you brad do you dyno the motors? im in texas so im sure freight would be a little more,, just want to get the most for my money

[brad hibbard]

we have free shipping right now so it doesn't matter where you are

and yes we do offer a dyno/break-in service at an additional $500 this does includes Joe Gibbs break in oil and a wix filter----

the bonus to us doing the break-in is if there would be a problem with the engine we will simply send it back to GM and do another one for you---------if we don't run it for you and you have a problem it can be very time consuming to get any kind of claim from GM as they are actually sold without any implied warranty.

Brad

[charlie11515]

so about 6 grand and its ready to race? sounds like the way to go for me... ill be calling in acouple weeks, only 2 weeks left at our track then time to start on next years program

[charlie11515]

do the new 604 show mor hp than the old ones?

[Matt49]

No, you're not going to be ready to race for $6000. It's going to be closer to $8000 if you do it right.

Once you get the motor, you will still need:
Distributor
Ignition
Coil
Wires
Plugs
Carburetor
Headers
Fuel pump
Water pump
Fan
Alternator (if you so choose)
Power steering pump
Pulleys
Belts
Flywheel
Fuel lines
Gauge fittings
...
I'm sure I'm forgetting some other stuff.

KRC makes a great kit to finish outfitting the front of the motor (pumps, pulleys, belts, etc.).
Plenty of great options out there for carburetor but don't just throw any old 650/750 on it. Get one built to match the fuel curve of the motor from someone that KNOWS these motors as that is where most of the legal power is found.

If you are serious about it, call and talk to Brad. He'll set you straight. Pay attention to what he says. He looks out for racers and does what he can to save us money. That keeps us racing and keeps him in business. I wish more people in the racing business looked at it this way but most are out to get you for every dime today without thought for what you'll be doing tomorrow if you're broke.

Good luck.

[doublehracefab]

Cost to run a crate is about 50% of the cost to run a super at weekly shows.JMO crates are the way to go.

[brad hibbard]

Matt49

I need to put you on the payroll---LOL

but he is correct----don't forget the bolt-ons----they add up fast

actually for a round number if you have nothing its around $10,500 but that is all top shelf stuff including
KRC
Stealth
Beya
CV products
MSD

we can cut some corners to save a little bit of tire money if need be

Brad

[hanginitout]

JMO.. It think they spend alot on bodies and other parts.. this racing is so close, and so many of these drivers, drive over theirs heads.. so they spend lots of money on component parts from wrecking.. I would like to see them have a steel head motor rule also. Most these racer are very resoucefull.. They can gather enough parts to put together a steel head motor, and when it come to rebuld time they can do it themselves. saving about $3,000. Ther could be a happy medium... i'm sure...