More research into conspiracy theories and the people who believe them

[kidrock]

If you believe Fox only tells the truth, you are so mistaken.Fox has it's own agenda to spin on the news.Just like CNN ,MSN,Fox ,Weather Channel. The list goes on.

Thank you for that insight and so true.

[skids]

Correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't the left refer to the ACA as being "government run" health care as a "conspiracy theory" by the right??? Wasn't it foo fooed and countered with statements like.........

If you like your plan, you can keep it.
If you like your doctor, you can keep him/her.
The government will not get between you and your medical care.

???????

Do any of you (t.nie) recall that????

We find out now, that some of the top hospitals for cancer and research will not be included "in network" with Obamacare. Seems to me that IS getting between me and my healthcare!!!

Why can't people admit that this law is. and always will be a DISMAL FAILURE.

Healthcare will be MORE messed up than it was before it was passed.

[Bubstr]

Correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't the left refer to the ACA as being "government run" health care as a "conspiracy theory" by the right??? Wasn't it foo fooed and countered with statements like.........

If you like your plan, you can keep it.
If you like your doctor, you can keep him/her.
The government will not get between you and your medical care.

???????

Do any of you (t.nie) recall that????

We find out now, that some of the top hospitals for cancer and research will not be included "in network" with Obamacare. Seems to me that IS getting between me and my healthcare!!!

Why can't people admit that this law is. and always will be a DISMAL FAILURE.

Healthcare will be MORE messed up than it was before it was passed.

Since it's the law of the land, I wonder what these hospitals will be doing for a living? I would guess they just plan on charging the patient for everything instead of just over charges as they do now with most ins plans. I guess if you want that caliber of treatment, you will have to pay for it. I did a couple years ago to the tune of $2k above ins. payout.

[CIRF]

Hmmmm. Shouldn't everyone have the right to get treatment from the best and most competent healthcare facilities? It would seem everyone has the right to healthcare, but they aren't necessarily entitled to get their care from the most competent facilities if they aren't financially equipped to do so.

[Bubstr]

Hmmmm. Shouldn't everyone have the right to get treatment from the best and most competent healthcare facilities? It would seem everyone has the right to healthcare, but they aren't necessarily entitled to get their care from the most competent facilities if they aren't financially equipped to do so.

Everyone has the right to the health care they want. They also have the responsibility to pay for it, just like it's always been. There are a lot of competent facilities, If you want something special, you usually pay a special price. When I took my wife to Mayo clinic, I expected to pay a premium price. I was ecstatic when it was much cheaper than the specialists we had been to that didn't have a clue. You can still choose to buy a Cadillac insurance plan.

[CIRF]

Bubstr, for years we've heard some politicians, and others, say "everyone has the right to competent healthcare". It would seem at this point that the tune has changed to "the competency of your healthcare provider is based upon your ability to pay".

The poor folk get their healthcare from quacks, and the rich folk get their's from Cleveland Clinic or Johns Hopkins or Mayo Clinic or Cedars Sinai. Doesn't this fly in the face of what hussein and those of his ideological stance stand for?.

Bub, in reference to Mayo Clinic, my family has been going there since in the 1940's starting with my Dad. My first trip there as a patient was 1985. We have made the 6 hour one way trip to Rochester, Minnesota countless times since then and have found our experience dealing with them to be the same as what you referred to. The costs at Mayo are almost always less than comparable care and procedures near home. It must be volume since there are upwards of 32,000 patients in Rochester on any given day.

[skids]

Everyone has the right to the health care they want. They also have the responsibility to pay for it, just like it's always been. There are a lot of competent facilities, If you want something special, you usually pay a special price. When I took my wife to Mayo clinic, I expected to pay a premium price. I was ecstatic when it was much cheaper than the specialists we had been to that didn't have a clue. You can still choose to buy a Cadillac insurance plan.

If you stopped with your first two sentences, we could agree. But, like CIRF said, your statement flies in the face of what the ACA was, and still is, touted to be! That was the point I was making.

[Bubstr]

I'm sorry, the cost of the care does not reflect the quality of the care. Take that from someone who has paid a lot for substandard care, from reputable university teaching facilities. If you want to find a good Dr, ask a nurse, how many, he's killed and how many he's cured. They won't give you a answer, but they will tell you who they trust.

[Bubstr]

Bubstr, for years we've heard some politicians, and others, say "everyone has the right to competent healthcare". It would seem at this point that the tune has changed to "the competency of your healthcare provider is based upon your ability to pay".

The poor folk get their healthcare from quacks, and the rich folk get their's from Cleveland Clinic or Johns Hopkins or Mayo Clinic or Cedars Sinai. Doesn't this fly in the face of what hussein and those of his ideological stance stand for?.

Bub, in reference to Mayo Clinic, my family has been going there since in the 1940's starting with my Dad. My first trip there as a patient was 1985. We have made the 6 hour one way trip to Rochester, Minnesota countless times since then and have found our experience dealing with them to be the same as what you referred to. The costs at Mayo are almost always less than comparable care and procedures near home. It must be volume since there are upwards of 32,000 patients in Rochester on any given day.

Mayo clinic is a amazing place. From how you are treated when you check in to the time you check out, to the quality of care. I had the opportunity to talk to one of the Drs about it as I'm always asking Why. He told me, it starts with talent. If your not in the top 1% of your class in Med school, don't apply for a internship. Out of these 90% will be sent packing after board interviews. Around 400 will start their internship and only around 100 will finish all 4 years. Of these 5 to 10 will be offered residency. Residency is easier to get than to keep, because of monthly board reviews. They review every case to see if the best available care was given to each patient and no unnecessary treatment or tests. One fail wipes out 10 success stories. The Doctors are on salaries that equal the average of the best in the world, They make no more for extra procedures or any less. It makes no difference if a neurosurgeon cuts one head open or 100. It does make a difference if he cuts one that didn't need to be cut. The rest of the staff is paid well and gets half time pep talks daily. You will notice each of the 100 plus people in the waiting room on each of the 14 floors get treated like family even if they are disagreeable. Even billing treats you well. They know your sick, your scared and your worried about how your going to pay for it. A lot of care facilities could learn from this place. Before she even seen a Doctor, my wife,who was clinically blind by this time, said, :I've got a good feeling about this place". After seeing the Doctor for 20 minutes he said this is what you have and this is how we fix it, she was ecstatic. Not as ecstatic as she was the day she had 20/15 vision with out glasses for the first time in her life.

[CIRF]

Everything you say is absolutely true. One example of how Mayo operates: this is a true story to which I would swear on a stack of Holy Bibles and my Wife was there and witnessed it as well. I go to Mayo every 2 years for a general check-up and to see a specialist whom I've been seeing for 20 years. He has dual citizenship and spends quite a bit of time in Europe doing research and is considered the #1 specialist in his field IN THE WORLD, and that ain't no bull. Several years ago my Wife and I waited for around 2 hours for a final consultation with this specialist. He was running behind and came to the examination room where we were waiting and was sincerely apologetic almost to a fault. He offered to go get us some coffee or a soda, etc. and said he would be about another hour. Now remember, this doctor is widely acclaimed as the #1 guy in his field world wide and he's offering to go get my Wife and I something to drink 'cause he's running so far behind. How many places would that happen?

Mayo Clinic is as Bubstr says a truly amazing place. The fairly new Gonda building is state of the art and the whole complex is by far the most impressive health care facility we've ever seen. We've been to all of the highly touted facilities in chitcago at one time or another and none of them hold a candle to Mayo!

[t.nie]

Correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't the left refer to the ACA as being "government run" health care as a "conspiracy theory" by the right??? Wasn't it foo fooed and countered with statements like.........

If you like your plan, you can keep it.
If you like your doctor, you can keep him/her.
The government will not get between you and your medical care.

???????

Do any of you (t.nie) recall that????

We find out now, that some of the top hospitals for cancer and research will not be included "in network" with Obamacare. Seems to me that IS getting between me and my healthcare!!!

Why can't people admit that this law is. and always will be a DISMAL FAILURE.

Healthcare will be MORE messed up than it was before it was passed.

It still isn't "government run" healthcare, but why get stuck on the finer points? For an explanation of socialized medicine, do some research into the NHS in England or Canada. It works just fine. I can attest to that, having lived in England for 15 years and I am still a valid holder of an NHS card that entitles me to healthcare there.

Of course, chicken littles all over America will scream the sky is falling until the day they die, descending sky or not. Just the nature of some people to freak the heck out whenever anything new comes along.

As far as the BIG HEADLINES about "ACA FORCES POLICY CANCELLATIONS: OBAMA BIG FAT LIAR!!!!" much of what we see being attributed (big word, meaning "caused by") to the ACA are mostly just run of the mill churn in the market that would have happened anyway. Just some policies are being cancelled because they don't meet the ACA standard, and in many cases those same people would be losing access to their networks of providers and docs anyway. All that happened this year was the right wing shyt spewing machine got the opportunity to make it all the fault of the ACA, instead of just normal turnover and change in the market place.

Big deal. Storm in a teacup. Some gutter press headlines and sensationalism from right wing spin sites, nothing more. All fluff, no substance. The usual scare tactics, fear and smear.

[t.nie]

Glad to read all the glowing reports about the Mayo clinic, and don't get me wrong, I am very happy that people had access to such a top notch facility and they got great outcomes.

Where it all falls apart is when you look at the demographics and financials behind Mayo. It is no secret it is a very very well funded operation. Lots of wealthy benefactors pour a lot of money into it. The one thing that sets it apart is the docs don't do "Fee for Service" no, they get paid top dollar and then some right off the bat for outcomes, not pushing people through and getting paid by volume.

So while it's all well and good for those that go there, unfortunately not every hospital can afford such luxury, or should I say that most hospitals are big businesses running on a shoestring to make money for whomever the people are who make money out of hospitals.

If Mayo was run to make as much money as possible and those same top notch docs were getting paid by the bodies they could churn through, doubtful you would get the 5 star concierge treatment. No, you would get pushed through like a piece of meat and your insurance would get charged to the max for as many procedures, pills and tests the doc could possibly think of, relevant or not.

Glad to hear Mayo is great. There is enough money in there to fund 20 other inner city hospitals, so it should be. Trouble is there are only so many #1 in their field docs, so many #1 in their field researchers, and so many who get to access those #1s.

Count yourself fortunate to be able to go there. Most inner city folk couldn't afford the bus ticket, let alone the cost of staying in that area for more than a day. Mayo is the exclusive preserve of the people who can afford it, and that aint most people in this nation.

[LITE-INN]

IF THEY ARE GOING TO CHANGE THAN THIS WOULD BE BETTER http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_France

[Bubstr]

Anyone can go to the Mayo clinic that has insurance or cash and can get there. You can even get stabilized at either of the two supporting hospitals with out insurance. Just like any others. There is no special club to use their facility.

[LITE-INN]

As is evidenced by the Mayo Clinic logo, the institution has a three part focus. First and primary to the organization is the patient care practice, represented by the central shield. This is in accordance with the primary statement of the organization that "the needs of the patient come first." The other two shields represent the areas of education and research, two areas of Mayo Clinic which have become more prominent over time.[12]Patient care[edit]Each year, more than one million patients from all 50 states and from more than 150 countries are seen at one of the Mayo Clinic facilities.[2] Mayo Clinic offers highly specialized medical care, and a large portion of the patient population are referrals from smaller clinics and hospitals from across the upper Midwest and the United States as a whole. Mayo Clinic physicians are paid a fixed salary that is not linked to patient volume (relative value units) or income from fee-for-service payments. This practice is thought to decrease the monetary motivation to see patients in large numbers and increase the incentive to spend more time with individuals. Salaries are determined by the marketplace salaries for physicians in comparable large group practices.Research POOR TNIE WRONG AGAIN

[CIRF]

Anyone can go to the Mayo clinic that has insurance or cash and can get there. You can even get stabilized at either of the two supporting hospitals with out insurance. Just like any others. There is no special club to use their facility.

Well said Bubstr. I would only add that getting care at Mayo Clinic is only a local doctor referral away. And, if you are not a present patient but have a serious enough problem and you come in off the street the clinic will set you up with what is known as a "priority interview" with a general practitioner and if that doctor deems your condition serious enough they will give you immediate clinic appointments or admittance to either St. Mary's or Methodist. This is not speculation but fact gleaned from experience.

A sample group of 23 physicians at Mayo Clinic make between $127,000 and $483,000 with the median income of $275,500. He!!, I know farmers who make a lot more than $275,000 and most of them couldn't diagnose a bad case of crab lice.

I will promise you this, and I know what I'm talking about, medical care at Mayo Clinic is no more expensive, and in many cases less expensive than our local hospitals and doctors. And, as Bubstr said, anyone with insurance or proof of funds to cover diagnosis and/or treatment, regardless of their social or economic status can get care at Mayo.

[skids]

It still isn't "government run" healthcare, but why get stuck on the finer points?

Who imposed the mandate? Government
Who is enforcing the mandate? Government
Who is running the exchanges? Government
Who collects the "fines" for not complying? Government
Who forced it on the people who overwhelmingly did NOT want it? Government
Who is telling insurance companies what they MUST comply with in the policies? Government
Who included in the law a "panel" to make decisions on OTHER people's healthcare? Government

If they aren't running it, why the need for the panel and the exchanges etc.???

Ya right! It's not "government run." What was I thinking?

As far as the BIG HEADLINES about "ACA FORCES POLICY CANCELLATIONS: OBAMA BIG FAT LIAR!!!!" much of what we see being attributed (big word, meaning "caused by") to the ACA are mostly just run of the mill churn in the market that would have happened anyway.

Please provide me some evidence that this would have happened anyway.

I'm pretty positive my in-laws would not be getting their policy canceled if not for the ACA.

[kidrock]

Who imposed the mandate? Government
Who is enforcing the mandate? Government
Who is running the exchanges? Government
Who collects the "fines" for not complying? Government
Who forced it on the people who overwhelmingly did NOT want it? Government
Who is telling insurance companies what they MUST comply with in the policies? Government
Who included in the law a "panel" to make decisions on OTHER people's healthcare? Government

If they aren't running it, why the need for the panel and the exchanges etc.???

Ya right! It's not "government run." What was I thinking?





Please provide me some evidence that this would have happened anyway.

I'm pretty positive my in-laws would not be getting their policy canceled if not for the ACA.

And i'm pretty sure my son would not have insurance right now because he would not have been able to afford it but, now he can stay on my company insurance. And I'm pretty sure my Aunt will now be able to get insurance since she was kicked off her last policy because of her cancer. I'm pretty sure they can not deny me coverage now if I have to change jobs because of my condition so, I guess there was good and bad about the ACA for some people.

I think it's bs that your in laws had their policy canceled total bs if you ask me.

[t.nie]

Who imposed the mandate? Government
Who is enforcing the mandate? Government
Who is running the exchanges? Government
Who collects the "fines" for not complying? Government
Who forced it on the people who overwhelmingly did NOT want it? Government
Who is telling insurance companies what they MUST comply with in the policies? Government
Who included in the law a "panel" to make decisions on OTHER people's healthcare? Government

If they aren't running it, why the need for the panel and the exchanges etc.???

Ya right! It's not "government run." What was I thinking?





Please provide me some evidence that this would have happened anyway.

I'm pretty positive my in-laws would not be getting their policy canceled if not for the ACA.

So if we take your line of reasoning that because the government passed a law regulating a market it becomes "government run," then every business in America that conforms to government regulations becomes "government run."

I see how that line of reasoning works. If any law applies to your business, then you immediately conclude the government is running that business. Which, in a very perverted way, is true I guess.

It's a stretch, but if you have any business and you do anything in your business to conform to a regulation, then the government is "running" your business. Ok. Weird logic, but OK.

[t.nie]

And as far as policy cancellation issues, there are HUNDREDS of reasons policies might get cancelled each year. As I said before, this just gave the right wing hate machine the perfect opportunity to claim that none of that would have happened if not for the ACA. It's just propaganda, nothing more.

And I am positive that if your relatives find they get BETTER insurance at an affordable rate, you will be on here telling everyone that, too?

LOL.

Truth is some people will not be better off. It will happen. But I expect our government to do whats best for the majority, not the few. Sorry if you are in the few.