Baseline...but for crates

[Matt49]

I realize this isn't the "crate" section but there isn't much chassis talk in the crate section.
I'm wondering what most have found to be a good "baseline" setup for crates as compared to the baseline setups provided by the manufacturers. Here are the things I think would be different for making a baseline crate setup sheet.
Less rear %
Softer LR spring
Softer 5th coil spring
Softer 6th coil spring
More rear stagger (maybe)

Any other thoughts or comments on what I have?

[Cratedriver]

53.5 rear w/o driver
53 ls
Pretty basic on springs. Softer lr could be a help on some tracks.
325 5th coil. 6th coil 400.
Normally run 5" on stagger.

[BlackMagic]

Should we take into consideration the center of gravity difference in the cars between the all aluminum open motors and the steel block crates? If we were to compensate for that how would we do so? Spring rate changes? Roll center manipulation? Ride height changes? Change the height of the other constant ballasts in the car such as fuel cell, driver, and led used to make weight? I don't know.... Just some thoughts to consider maybe.....

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Should we take into consideration the center of gravity difference in the cars between the all aluminum open motors and the steel block crates? If we were to compensate for that how would we do so? Spring rate changes? Roll center manipulation? Ride height changes? Change the height of the other constant ballasts in the car such as fuel cell, driver, and led used to make weight? I don't know.... Just some thoughts to consider maybe.....

Typically, you raise an iron block/steel head motor because the cg of the motor is lower than the aluminum one. Other than that, I just get my percentages back the same when switching from all aluminum to an iron block piece. But honestly, I have little experience with an all aluminum engine. But I have had good luck keeping handling consistent when making the switch.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I realize this isn't the "crate" section but there isn't much chassis talk in the crate section.
I'm wondering what most have found to be a good "baseline" setup for crates as compared to the baseline setups provided by the manufacturers. Here are the things I think would be different for making a baseline crate setup sheet.
Less rear %
Softer LR spring
Softer 5th coil spring
Softer 6th coil spring
More rear stagger (maybe)

Any other thoughts or comments on what I have?

Generally softer on most springs, especially lf, rr. Less wedge. More dynamic steer.

[BlackMagic]

Mastersbilt:
Is there a typical height range that you normally raise steel motors? Why do you favor changing the LF and rr spring rates? Or are there other reasons? In my head I'm guessing it's to free up entry? If I am correct why do you need to do this because of a motor weight difference? Or is it because of a power difference?


Matt49:
I believe I know why you would like to soften up the LR, but are we talking like extremely soft? To get that chassis hike up sped up? Or is there another reason? Would also like to hear your thoughts on this change as well

[bob62]

I'm guessing soft lf for sharper entry, more direct steering and due to low power you can't be tight for any length of time during corner entry, there is no power to fix a tight crate car unless very slick.
Soft lr spring to get lr to hike up fast.
my question is how high is the center of gravity on a 604 motor compared to the average 430 all ali motor.
Are people leaving crate to the left but raising it or both move to right and raising.
And why would you run softer with the 5th coil or 6th? wouldn't you want the engine to spend more of it's energy turning the pinion instead of lifting it. There doesn't seem to be a issue with loss of traction to be worring about it. As you come off a corner in a crate you can really get into the throttle hard quickly.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Mastersbilt:
Is there a typical height range that you normally raise steel motors? Why do you favor changing the LF and rr spring rates? Or are there other reasons? In my head I'm guessing it's to free up entry? If I am correct why do you need to do this because of a motor weight difference? Or is it because of a power difference?


Matt49:
I believe I know why you would like to soften up the LR, but are we talking like extremely soft? To get that chassis hike up sped up? Or is there another reason? Would also like to hear your thoughts on this change as well

We are kinda talking about 2 different things. 1" higher typically for iron block

The spring talk was specifically for crates or low horsepower in general. That is all about momentum. A tight car will bog the engine down.

[Matt49]

There doesn't seem to be a issue with loss of traction to be worring about it. As you come off a corner in a crate you can really get into the throttle hard quickly.

On a black slick track...no way.

[bob62]

You are right Matt! I forget how slick tracks can get ,I have been on a couple hooked up tracks lately.
How soft are people going with the 5th coil spring, less than 275lbs?

[7uptruckracer]

250-225 whatever it takes to get the travel right!. Most crates run gas LRF shock and something closer to a slick track setting on their shocks to help the car get up. I run softer LF on more of my stuff I work on now more then ever but you generally go softer because the car isn't going as fast so its not traveling as much and not loading things the same way and I go softer on the LR spring to help the car get on the bars and index being they just don't twist up as easy, Pay attention to your front COG height depending on which crate you use 604 or 602 one is aluminum head one all steel, like they said

[JTSjet]

less rear % - is that because it is desirable or because that's just what you end up with without being overweight and/or weight in poor location(s) ??

[Matt49]

Less rear % (in my opinion) is desirable to help keep the car free in momentum situations. A situation you find yourself in more frequently with less power at your disposal.
A car with 800 HP that is a little too tight can be turned with the right foot. A tight car with 400 HP is a lot harder to handle. Especially when the track is fast.

[bob62]

How much travel should I see on the 5th Coil shock?