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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    26

    Default 2.3 roller sliders/rocker question

    i have heard that the rockers on the Ford ranger are a different ratio than the mustangs, i do understand that the vale is a different dia but you can machine it to fit the mustang valves. do you think if the head is milled .100 and run the 237 cam that i can use those rockers without doing any harm? whats your opinion

  2. #2

    Default

    Not to be too big of a pain, but I used a search engine (IT"S CALLED GOOGLE) and found the following:


    The least expensive swap is to grab a used roller cam, followers and lifters from a 1989-92 Ranger or 91 and up Mustang if you have a hydraulic cam. The Ranger cam provides very good low end torque starting at 800 rpm and up to about 4500 rpm.



    Ranger Roller Cam


    Inexpensive Hot Cam Setup
    Looking at the cam and rocker arm (cam follower) specs, there's basically 3 versions:

    Non Roller Cam Engines
    Have slider rocker arms 1.5:1 ratio
    Not interested

    1989-1994 2.3L Roller Cam Engines
    Lobe Lift
    Intake 0.2381"
    Exhaust 0.2381"
    Rocker arm (cam follower) ratio 1.64:1
    Theoretical Valve Lift @ Zero Lash
    Intake 0.390"
    Exhaust 0.390"
    Valve stem 0.3419" dia

    1995-2000 2.3L and 2.5L Roller Cam Engines
    Lobe Lift
    Intake 0.2163"
    Exhaust 0.2163"
    Rocker arm (cam follower) ratio 1.86:1
    Theoretical Valve Lift @ Zero Lash
    Intake 0.402"
    Exhaust 0.402"
    Valve stem 0.2750" dia
    Stock Roller Camshaft Pattern


    Lobe Center Separation: 112 deg
    Intake @ 0.050:
    - Open: 14.5 deg BTDC
    - Centerline: 108 deg
    - Closed: 21.5 ABDC
    - Duration: 187 deg

    Intake @ 0.00 lift:
    - Duration: 248 deg
    - Lift: 0.390"

    Exhaust @ 0.050:
    - Open: 30.5 deg BBDC
    - Centerline: 116 deg
    - Closed: 21.5 ATDC
    - Duration: 189 deg

    Exhaust @ 0.00 lift:
    - Duration: 250 deg
    - Lift: 0.390"

    It Gets Interesting!

    The hot setup is to use a 95+ Rocker Arm (1.86" ratio) with a 89-94 Roller Cam (0.2381" lobe lift). This will give you a valve lift of 0.443" which is pretty dam hot! If you have an 89-94 2.3L, you will have to widen the valve stem ends (0.2750") of the 95+ rockers to fit the 0.343" valve stems.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Post Falls,ID
    Posts
    1,579

    Default

    WOW...alot of false information...lets start with non roller follower..the correct ratio is 1.66. the roller follower REGARDLESS of version is 1.86

    also a cam with smaller lift is not going to have more lift than the same type of cam that has less lift...regardless of the rocker/follower being used.

    The difference between the 1989-1994 roller followers and the 1995 and up roller followers are material choice(1995 up stamped steel)and valve stem size(1995 up are 7mm, pre-1995 are 11/32)
    No matter how hard you try...you cant fix stupid!!!

    If you build it right...it will turn left!!!

    www.raceidaho.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Post Falls,ID
    Posts
    1,579

    Default

    also i do sell the ranger roller cam and followers(pre-1995)for $125 plus shipping
    No matter how hard you try...you cant fix stupid!!!

    If you build it right...it will turn left!!!

    www.raceidaho.com

  5. #5

    Default

    "Thanks Car62." I figured if I put some info out that the true information would surface. Sometimes you just have to use the right bait. The search that I did also shows that what you get from it is not always totally correct and that is why a person has to get involved in their own research. Once you gather the info then you can ask if the info you got is right. I was just trying to emphasize that searching other sources is not that hard. Thanks again.....................

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,008

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by car62 View Post
    WOW...alot of false information...lets start with non roller follower..the correct ratio is 1.66. the roller follower REGARDLESS of version is 1.86

    also a cam with smaller lift is not going to have more lift than the same type of cam that has less lift...regardless of the rocker/follower being used.

    The difference between the 1989-1994 roller followers and the 1995 and up roller followers are material choice(1995 up stamped steel)and valve stem size(1995 up are 7mm, pre-1995 are 11/32)
      

    not sure if the ford info is wrong but this is from a 1994 ford online shop manual. it is also the same for 92 and 93.

    Rocker Arm (Cam Follower)
     Ratio 1.64:1

    olin

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,008

    Default

    here is more of the 94 shop manual info.

    Specifications
    Refer to the following chart for engine specifications.

    General Specifications
    Item Specification
    Displacement 2.3L (140 Cubic Inches)
    Number of Cylinders 4
    Bore and Stroke 3.780 x 3.126
    Firing Order 1-3-4-2
    Oil Pressure (Hot @ 2000 rpm) 40-60
    Drive Belt Tension Refer to Section 03-05, Accessory Drive
    Combustion Chamber
    Volume (cc) 59.8-62.8
    Valve Guide Bore Diameter 0.3433-0.3443
    Valve Seats
     Width — Intake .060-.080
     Width — Exhaust .070-.090
     Angle 45°
    Runout Limit (T.I.R. Max) 0.0016
    Valve Arrangement (Front to Rear) E-I-E-I-E-I-E-I
    Valve Lash Adjuster Bore Diameter 0.8430-0.9449
    Valve Stem to Guide Clearance
     Intake 0.0010-0.0027
     Exhaust 0.0015-0.0032
     Service Clearance Limit 0.0055 Max.
    Valve Head Diameter
     Intake 1.723-1.747
     Exhaust 1.49-1.51
    Valve Face Runout Limit 0.002 Max.
    Valve Face Angle Limit 44°
    Valve Stem Diameter (Std.)
     Intake .3416-.3423
     Exhaust .3411-.3418
     (0.015 Oversize)
     Intake .3566-.3573
     Exhaust .3561-.3568
     (0.030 Oversize)
     Intake .3716-.3723
     Exhaust .3711-.3718
    Valve Springs (with Damper Removed)
     Compression Pressure
     (Lb. @ Spec. Length)
      Intake and Exhaust
        (Installed) 71-79 @ 1.52
      Intake and Exhaust
        (Valve Open) 126-142 @ 1.12
       (Valve Closed) 67-74 @ 1.52
      Free Length (Approximate) 1.877
      Assembled Height 1.49-1.55
      Service Limit 5% Pressure Loss @ Specified Length
       Out of Square Service
       Limit 5/64 (0.078)
    Rocker Arm (Cam Follower)
     Ratio 1.64:1
    Valve Tappet, Lifter or Adjuster
     Diameter (Standard) 0.8422-0.8427
     Clearance-to-Bore 0.0007-0.0027
     Service Limit 0.005 Max.
     Hydraulic Leak-Down Rate (1) 2-8 Seconds
     Collapsed Tappet Gap
      Allowable 0.035-0.055 @ Cam
      Desired 0.040-0.050 @ Cam

    this is straight out of the online shop manual i use at a ford dealership.

    olin

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,008

    Default

    here are the same specs for a 95.

    Specifications
    General Specifications Item Specification
    Displacement 2.3L (140 Cubic Inches)
    Number of Cylinders 4
    Bore and Stroke 3.780 x 3.126
    Firing Order 1-3-4-2
    Oil Pressure (Hot @ 2000 rpm) 40-60
    Drive Belt Tension Refer to Section 03-05, Accessory Drive
    Combustion Chamber Volume (cc) 55.5-58.5
    Valve Guide Bore Diameter 0.3433-0.3443
    Valve Seats
    Width — Intake 0.068-0.088
    Width — Exhaust .070-.090
    Angle 45°
    Runout Limit (T.I.R. Max) 0.0020
    Valve Arrangement
    (Front to Rear) E-I-E-I-E-I-E-I
    Valve Lash Adjuster Bore Diameter 0.8430-0.9449
    Valve Stem to Guide Clearance
    Intake 0.0010-0.0027
    Exhaust 0.0015-0.0032
    Service Clearance Limit 0.0055 Max.
    Valve Head Diameter
    Intake 1.723-1.747
    Exhaust 1.49-1.51
    Valve Face Runout Limit 0.002 Max.
    Valve Face Angle Limit 44°
    Valve Stem Diameter (Std.)
    Intake .2746-.2754
    Exhaust .2736-.2744
    (0.015 Oversize)
    Intake .2896-.2904
    Exhaust .2886-.2894
    (0.030 Oversize)
    Intake .3046-.3054
    Exhaust .3036-.3044
    Valve Springs
    Compression Pressure
    (Lb. @ Spec. Length)
    Intake and Exhaust
    (Installed) 57-63 @ 1.56
    Intake and Exhaust
    (Valve Open) 118-132 @ 1.16
    (Valve Closed) 57-63 @ 1.56
    Free Length (Approximate) 2.02
    Assembled Height 1.54-1.58
    Service Limit 5% Pressure Loss @ Specified Length
    Out of Square Service
    Limit 5/64 (0.078)
    Rocker Arm (Cam Follower)
    Ratio 1.86:1
    Valve Tappet, Lifter or Adjuster
    Diameter (Standard) 0.8422-0.8427
    Clearance-to-Bore 0.0007-0.0027
    Service Limit 0.005 Max.
    Hydraulic Leak-Down Rate (1) 2-8 Seconds
    Collapsed Tappet Gap
    Allowable 0.035-0.055 @ Cam
    Desired 0.040-0.050 @ Cam


    olin

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    26

    Default

    you see, the 95+ sliders are 1.86:1 ratio. Can that rocker be run with the A237 cam without spring problems or anything else?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,008

    Default

    there are 2 things that might cause a problem. one is that the 1.86 followers are stamped. if you machine enough off to fit the larger valve it may weaken the follower too much. two, the way you increase the ratio is to move the roller closer to the lash adjuster. i believe this will cause the intake to open later and the exhaust to open earlier if you use a cam made for 1.64 followers. how much it will affect the cam timing and performance i don't know. maybe big e or 84dave will have more info. it would seem to make sense that to get top performance from the 1.86 followers you should have a cam ground for them.

    olin

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    SPRINGDALE, AR
    Posts
    157

    Default

    WHY couldn't you grind down the dia of the early model valve stem tip to fit the late model roller rockers?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Post Falls,ID
    Posts
    1,579

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Profile View Post
    WHY couldn't you grind down the dia of the early model valve stem tip to fit the late model roller rockers?
    sure,and then get them re-hardened...just more money,would be cheaper to do it the right way from the beginning.
    No matter how hard you try...you cant fix stupid!!!

    If you build it right...it will turn left!!!

    www.raceidaho.com

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    SPRINGDALE, AR
    Posts
    157

    Default

    Then the right way is to enlarge the slot in the late roller rockers? I though "return to dirt" said that would weaken the rocker arm too much. Which way is the correct way?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Post Falls,ID
    Posts
    1,579

    Default

    having the correct cam for the components
    No matter how hard you try...you cant fix stupid!!!

    If you build it right...it will turn left!!!

    www.raceidaho.com

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