Heavier RF Spring Changes What on entry?

[thinkstomuch]

I've heard some different opinions on this so I'd thought I'd ask for more:1. Heavier RF Spring wont let the car roll onto the RF keeping the rear steer out of it, making the car tight on entry.2. Heavier RF Spring loads the LR more when entering which will loosen the car on entry.So which one is right and why?Metric Clip, Clamped LR - Z Link RR

[HEAVY DUTY]

A heavier RF spring puts more weight on the RF when transferring weight rear to front, or left to right, which makes the RF tire stick harder and turn the car on entry and thru the middle. It also gives something for the LR to drive against when on the throttle. I would say that the roll steer is controlled more by the LR shock compression, and panhard bar rake. Although, if you are way too stiff on the RF, it would take roll out, and hold the car up off of the RR spring when the car is trying to roll, causing a loose/ skate. You have to run a lot stiffer spring on the front of a metric front end with metric lowers, just because of the leverage ratio of that control arm .

[MiddleMan]

What's too stiff for Nova lowers or metric lowers

650lb
750lb
850lb

[thinkstomuch]

For nova I'm in the 600# - 700# range. Works for me sometimes, other times car is very tight

[HEAVY DUTY]

Different makes of cars are different on spring rates. Nova stuff usually are in the 650 to 800 range. Stock metric stuff 1000 or 1100

[thinkstomuch]

So then I assume a softer LF would help the car turn on entry? Loading the RF more

[Dirtrunner35]

If the car is tight because too much spring and you go with a heavier spring it will make it worse, ONLY if it's a spring problem and not a driver (entry) problem. If i go in wrong my car is tight.

[jsf74]

What would you be doing wrong on entry to make your car tight?

[Brian Gray]

Driving in to hard = too tight. Hard on brakes or too much front bias = too tight . not enough front traction = too tight. Front Tires overloaded = too tight.

During weight transfer the heavier spring gets the weight.

[cozmo28]

stiffer right front spring will loosen car on entry

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Typically, the stiffer RF loosens entry into the corner while coasting or using the correct amount of braking. This may not be the case if the original spring was already too stiff and shocking the tire contact patch. It may also not be true if the change is large enough to have a noticeable impact on the attitude of the chassis. It is simply not enough to be able to memorize what a change does and always get that result. We have to be able to read what the car is doing.

[thinkstomuch]

Very strong point MasterSbilt - there are always two ways to skin a cat it seems. Pin pointing the exact cause holds the answer but the get to this is the difficult part for many

[Brian Gray]

After rereading your initial post both 1and 2 are wrong. The car doesn't work that way regardless of the suspension. Remember the race car only knows what is happening at the contact patches. "It doesn't care what springs shocks or suspension is on it. "Mark bush.

[Brian Gray]

I would Recommend before making any changes to springs etc. Work on keeping the tires hooked up. Focus on driving the car in a manner that will keep your tires from slipping and loosing traction. If this means slowing down do so. Then ask yourself what do I need the car to do? Then your process can start working through what changes will get the results that I need? I will tell you anytime you hear someone talk about cross weight and transfer from lr to rf or the other way around close your mind. It will mess up your process the car doesn't work like that.

[Anonymous24]

If you do your homework, you can calculate what spring rate is required for each wheel. Spring rates are dictated by several factors: wheel rate, suspension type, spring frequency, sprung and unsprung weight, center of gravity height, front and rear roll centers, the length of the moment arm, and the total amount of weight that needs to be transferred. Proper weight transfer is a must. Ex: RF wheel rate 950 (dynamic cornering) RR wheel rate 950 (dynamic cornering) changing spring rates on the car to fix handling issues is just a band aid when you should have stitches.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

If you do your homework, you can calculate what spring rate is required for each wheel. Spring rates are dictated by several factors: wheel rate, suspension type, spring frequency, sprung and unsprung weight, center of gravity height, front and rear roll centers, the length of the moment arm, and the total amount of weight that needs to be transferred. Proper weight transfer is a must. Ex: RF wheel rate 950 (dynamic cornering) RR wheel rate 950 (dynamic cornering) changing spring rates on the car to fix handling issues is just a band aid when you should have stitches.

Available travel would be paramount among these.

[Brian Gray]

I'd have to disagree with being able to calculate proper spring rate on a dirt car. There are to many variable's . track conditions alone make it seem like an impossible feat. Let alone the many different driver profiles. I just can't agree. That's before we get into chassis construction and all the mess involved there

[Anonymous24]

Available travel would be paramount among these.

Yes indeed.

[let-r-eat]

Nice thread. Proper travel and the rate at which it travels is paramount IMO. Determining the proper suspension frequency is very very important and is difficult in getting the right split front to rear with a 4 bar suspension. One reason I'm a believer in stacking the right front.

[stryker69]

What exactly does stacking the right front mean?