Starting Crates 602/604?

[W2Racing09]

Greetings,

I grew up in New England watching, and eventually racing on asphalt ovals. I used to race an RWD Mini Stock (Toyota) at some tight 1/4 and 1/3 mile tracks in Maine and New Hampshire. I've since moved around the country and dirt racing has definitely replaced asphalt at the top of my list of racing interests. I've got a lot more money now, and am looking to get into a Crate LM for next season (I want to buy this Autumn when the season ends). So I have a couple of questions --

1) I know I'm not starting out racing all together, but to start on Dirt is it a good idea to start in a Crate LM? I would be running either Georgetown Speedway in DE, or Potomac Speedway in MD. Georgetown is a good sized track with 8-9 cars running each night. Potomac is tighter, and gets 11-15 each race night. I would eventually like to run at Winchester, or Roaring Knob where the car counts are higher - but only after I've run at a less competitive track for a season.

2) Next, my question is -- is it possible to keep up with the 604s if you have a 602? I know the ideal motor is the 604, but is a 602 competitive? The rules in question are based on the RUSH crates (or are the RUSH crates). I would like to run a used 602 for a season or so, and then buy a 604 and keep the 602 for backup when I'm running for points so that I don't have to park it for the season if I lose the engine. I've been told that when first starting a 602 is fine, but would like some more opinions. Does anyone win with a 602?

Thanks for all of your help.

[bowtech]

I live in n ga i run the 602 in an actual 602 class but will run with the 604s on ocassion if the tracks dry u can at least keep up. we have a stout field of 604s in my area so i wouldnt want to race with them all the time its not worth the effort to me to drive like hell just to crack the top 5.If i were u i would buy a 604 and go racing its not gonna be that different

[W2Racing09]

Yeah I've been told that the 604 is the better option. However the price to get in the game is a lot higher with a 604. I see race ready 602 LMs sometimes for the $6000 - $7000 range. 604's are $8,000 or more on average. But on top of $6k-7k I will be buying $1500 in safety equipment as well as a trailer capable of hauling a LM. I have a budget around $10k to start. If I found the right deal maybe but I wouldn't mind just getting accustomed to it in a 602.

[stock car driver]

Sounds like you should wait another year. The real costs of racing are not the truck trailer car or motor they are the week to week costs. If you haven't got a track real real close your easily going to spend 100-400 a week to race.

[W2Racing09]

The weekly costs are not the issue, especially since the track I'm looking at running only has ten races per year in the Crate division. I have the disposable income for it weekly. Buying a house this fall is going to wipe out the vast majority of our savings, which is why I'm trying to stay under $10k. I could always cash advance on my credit card if I found a car that was a little bit more but prefer to only use that in an emergency. Once I have the car I'll be fine with the weekly costs.

So I'm getting that most people think the 602 is not at all competitive? Does anyone anywhere win with them in a division which runs both 602 and 604?

Italics denote edits

[stock car driver]

Cash advance on your cc to race? Racing constitutes a emergency?

[W2Racing09]

At what point did I say that racing was an emergency. I dont think you need to know anything about my financials other than that I can more than afford to race. My wife and I are going to Hawaii in five months, paid for the trip aleady. House shopping now pre approved for 400k putting 10% down. I try to set limits. Dont want to spend more than 10k this year. Can i get what I want with that? Yes. Has anything you said had anything to do with this post? No.

[stock car driver]

I don't give a rats ass about your financials I was reading your posts and you sound like you CANT afford to race period. 10k wont buy you a decent hobby stock around here with a 602 in it.

[W2Racing09]

Around where? I don't live in Iowa, or anywhere near IMCA country. However I lived in North Dakota for several years up until last year and I can assure you that winning Wissota Street Stocks go for less than $10k race ready, In fact I've seen very competitive Super Stocks and Midwest Mods go for less than $10k.

So now I'm going to link the first five Crate LMs 602 or otherwise that look half way decent on racing junk which are less than $10k.

http://www.racingjunk.com/Late-Model...-REDUCED-.html - $10,500, but looks nice. Sure I could come up with an extra $500.

http://www.racingjunk.com/Late-Model...front-end.html - $4,500, could buy a 604 to go with along with whatever else is needed.

http://www.racingjunk.com/Late-Model...ate-motot.html - Race ready, $7500

http://www.racingjunk.com/Late-Model...y-wright-.html - $4800

http://www.racingjunk.com/Late-Model...ace-ready.html - Not a crate, but came across a race ready SLM for $10k.

Are all of these cars the most competitive cars on earth? Nope. Is every car that wins in this area a 2014 Rocket? Nope. I've seen ten year old cars win LM races in the past year, and have seen some very old, very competitive cars this season at tracks like Lincoln, Susquehanna Speedway, Potomac, Hagerstown, Winchester and Trail Way. I think you have a different mindset then I'm looking for. I'm not planning to go out and win the championship next season. I never won a race in a mini stock so I doubt I'll go out and light the world on fire in a much faster division. I want to race and learn, thats it. I can do that within my budget, and if I find that you are right and i'm wrong I'll spend more money. It's really that simple. If you want to read my post and say that I can't go out and win ten races a year for $10k then I will call you correct. If you read them and say you can't go out and learn how to drive a late model next year for $10k you are incorrect.

[bowtech]

I have an 05 grt with 08 updates on frontend I run a 602 class where we use non adjustable shocks and are not supposed have any low drag or carbon fiber parts that's where I save money its not so much the motor its all the low drag light weight parts that are on a good crate car that drives up the price of a good roller I paid 10k for my car and trailer spent another $1500 on getting the car where I wanted it and won a race in my first year. if u want to run crate buy a 604 if your just getting started your gonna be in the back anyway u might as well be able to keep up on the straight away. just my opinion I'm sure there's people who run crate with a 602 and have sucess its just not really an option in my area

[W2Racing09]

I have an 05 grt with 08 updates on frontend I run a 602 class where we use non adjustable shocks and are not supposed have any low drag or carbon fiber parts that's where I save money its not so much the motor its all the low drag light weight parts that are on a good crate car that drives up the price of a good roller I paid 10k for my car and trailer spent another $1500 on getting the car where I wanted it and won a race in my first year. if u want to run crate buy a 604 if your just getting started your gonna be in the back anyway u might as well be able to keep up on the straight away. just my opinion I'm sure there's people who run crate with a 602 and have sucess its just not really an option in my area

I wish there were a 602 class around here. An interesting class that just started here this season is a 355ci economy LM class at Port Royal. I guess that is likely lower cost than Crates, but unless it catches at other tracks I don't think I would consider it. I will have to drive in traffic to get to Potomac (DC traffic on Friday night) so I'll probably have to spend a bit more on a trailer just to make sure it's going to haul good. I'd like to get a 604 for sure. If i can find a good enough roller I'll definitely consider it. This post was prompted because I saw a race ready 602 crate on a local forum for $6k. Never considered a 602 before but that was a hell of deal. I checked some results and it ran top ten every week in a class that drew 20 cars. Not crazy fast, but that is respectable. Driver moved up to LLM division and bought a brand new Rocket so he was selling the crate car.

[stock car driver]

Good luck to you..

I don't think you learn anything driving around under powered in the way.. the guys I see around here in crate late models with junk just making laps trying to learn NEVER get any faster they are always pushing to the top of the track or spinning out.

[stock car driver]

Nascar track by me had as many as 100 crate lates run a few years ago... all them beginers are done racing now, they quickly found out that just because used lm are cheap to buy they aren't cheap to keep going around the track at all.. a crash adds up to a grand easily when you've got fabricated spindles and a rack to deal with.

[W2Racing09]

That is a matter of setting the car up, back in 2004 or 2005 or whenever these older chassis were made people used to be able to race with them, remember back then those were what drivers like Bloomquist and Mars were running in the top series. Like I said, I've seen these cars win races before. Not everyone who wins is running a brand new chassis and engine, were that the case you wouldn't see many people running crates. If you had to buy a new chassis and engine every year you may as well run an SLM and race for $3,000 to win every week rather than a crate and run for $450. I'm sure I could learn quite a bit around the back of the pack for a season. Running on dirt alone, learning how to drive it since its that much different from asphalt.

Two things working in my favor for weekly costs,

1) The weekly costs will not bother me. Unless I roll it over or blow up an engine I'll be back the next week. Any sponsor money I get will sit in the bank waiting to be spent when there is a wreck or something of that nature.
2) The track has ten races per season, they are spread out to every other week and sometimes with two weeks in between races. I like this idea for many reasons. Costs can be spread over several weeks if the need arises, also it gives me several weeks to go over the car, make changes, etc.

I was just looking for opinions on the 602 crate and whether anyone thinks Crate LM is too big of a jump to start off in. I know I can afford to do it. I set a $10k limit but if I found a car I wanted for $15k I would have it.

[PushinTheLimit]

I jumped straight into Crate Late Models coming from asphalt road racing in a C5 Corvette. It's been quite a learning curve, but I've had good solid help along the way. I've raced five times now and getting close to being a top 5 car at my local track with a 604 crate but they allow steelheads in our class... no crate only class at my track. Luckily, there are a couple of tracks that run crates only and I plan to run with them some this year. Also, NeSmith runs at a couple tracks not too far away and I plan to hit a couple of those races this year and see how I fare.

I spent a little more than I planned in my budget, but I bought an 06 Rocket blue with a Hendren 604 and couldn't be happier. I would like to get the newest updates on it this winter, but otherwise... it's been a good starter car for me.

Something else to consider, taking the Dale McDowell dirt school this fall just to see if dirt late models is how you want to go. It's well worth the time and money and they have cars that you can drive if you don't have your own. I went that route before I bought mine and the school was a huge help for me.

[TReed44]

All of the tracks in Delaware only allow 602 motors.

[Krooser]

The only way you'll know if it's 'too big' is if you do it…

I went from junkyard dirt sportsman cars to a 427 in an ex-USAC late model in one week.

I think you are wasting $$$ buying a 602. You'll be at least 50 HP down from the rest of the pack not even counting the "cheated up" motors. Running in the back of the pack does little to hone your skills. You need to, at least, be competitive in your heat races to learn the ins and outs. Hooking up with an experienced crew would help immensely.

I'd start talking to the local racers every week. Be a part of the scene… let them know you are interested in starting to race again. Ask to be part of a good team… you will learn the most that way. Then you can make an educated move after you see what works and what doesn't.

I met a young kid this year that has a pavement LLM. I asked where he has been racing… he said they have just been 'testing'… huh? His dad bought a tractor/trailer stacker… then bought a race car. They have been 'testing' for two years… he 'may' try to race this year if the 'testing' goes OK. WTF? Just go do it...

[MM90]

The NASCAR tracks here run 602, 604, and steel head engines together. And the 602's are very competitive against the other engines. Not sure how much your rules differ from ours, but I wouldn't totally discount the 602 yet.

[W2Racing09]

I jumped straight into Crate Late Models coming from asphalt road racing in a C5 Corvette. It's been quite a learning curve, but I've had good solid help along the way. I've raced five times now and getting close to being a top 5 car at my local track with a 604 crate but they allow steelheads in our class... no crate only class at my track. Luckily, there are a couple of tracks that run crates only and I plan to run with them some this year. Also, NeSmith runs at a couple tracks not too far away and I plan to hit a couple of those races this year and see how I fare.

I spent a little more than I planned in my budget, but I bought an 06 Rocket blue with a Hendren 604 and couldn't be happier. I would like to get the newest updates on it this winter, but otherwise... it's been a good starter car for me.

Something else to consider, taking the Dale McDowell dirt school this fall just to see if dirt late models is how you want to go. It's well worth the time and money and they have cars that you can drive if you don't have your own. I went that route before I bought mine and the school was a huge help for me.

Thank you for your posts, this is just what I was looking to hear. I'm glad it wasn't too much of a jump. I'm sure having experience dealing with V8 RWD power is more useful than my asphalt mini stock experience but the decision making aspect of things is something that carries over from any type of racing I think.

I'm fairly open minded on what type of equipment I end up with, I have a few rules (Nothing older than '02, no copies, etc.) but I know how to do work and am more than willing to get new equipment over time too. I just want to get out on the track because I know I can learn more there than I can sitting here on a forum typing away.

I'm definitely considering the driving school. I was thinking of signing myself and my father up. (Just day one for him).

Thanks again for your post!

[W2Racing09]

All of the tracks in Delaware only allow 602 motors.

That is definitely useful information, I had assumed they had similar rules to the RUSH crates since cars come over to MD sometimes. Definitely glad to hear about the 602s only. Georgetown would likely be a much better drive from Hampstead, MD than Potomac would on a Friday night too. Probably an easier track to learn on too.