crate car with no hike up

[burgessracing]

I have have owned 2 different cars in 2 years and both have trouble getting up on the bars. The biggest thing i notice is under caution and the cars weave back and forth and all the cars will hike up the left rear body as the car is turned left but my car is completely flat doing this same thing. What causes a car to have a difficult time hiking up the left rear. Both of these cars are good cars. 2007 grt and now a 2010 mastersbilt. we are on the mastersbilt this year and the car is really good in the slick but tight when the track is heavy. we are down to 49 percent rear with o lr bite. we have tried 3 different shock packages. the only thing we have not changed much is the left rear spring. we have tried a 12 inch 225 and we are now on a 14 inch 175. same effect either way. just trying to learn what is stopping my car from hiking up

[phillips22]

This could only be a couple of things if you have a chain or the shock on the left it is to short and it is tying the car down the Jbar is way to low on the frame or high on the pinion! But if I had to guess I'm saying shock or chain is to short!

[DirtRacer9x]

Something binding somewhere? Really heavy right side springs? Bent shock shaft? Birdcages binding?

[Matt49]

With the car on the ground, put a jack under the c0ckput where the driver's arse would be and jack that thing up until the LR comes off the ground. This will let you know pretty quickly if something is binding or catching too soon because if it is the LR will leave the ground prematurely.
If it is binding or hanging it could be number of things: drive shaft bottoming out, shock topping out, chain too short, heims in a bind, etc.
If it isn't binding you likely have some other issue like not enough j-bar rake or the rear-end isn't setting in the car right (too far to the right).

[JTSjet]

you mentioned you are down to 49%. curious if in the process of reducing rear % you didn't end up having weight too low in the car.

[DirtRacer9x]

You need to make sure all corners of the car move freely not just the LR.

[burgessracing]

Thanks guys for taking the time to read and help with this problem. I just went and jacked the car up from under the drivers butt and it has no binds and it looked just like all the other cars do on the track when they weave back and forth. the body lifted with no catches until the chain was tight---car looked like it should. i then took all shocks off and their is no problem at any corner. then took off the 4 bars and no binding in the birdcage bearings or hiems. the jbar is at 10 inches on the frame( a little higher than i usually run but trying to find this problem) and even with yoke on the pinion end (about 1 inchor 4 clicks) the rearend is 15 3/4 over( i was at 16 but pulled it over to try that) I have moved lead all over the car and it has not changed the lift--my setup is as follows. springs lf 500, rf 275 on bump, lr175 14 inch and rr 225 12 inch, -- rearend over 15 3/4 --- j bar 10 inch on frame 4 clicks on pinion, all six shocks are new to eliminate a bad shock, lead is 50 lbs on x bar to the right side in center and 25 ibs on rt front about mid ways up near the starter. we have about 15 lbs of bite in car --- left side is 53.8 % and rear is 49 .3 %----when i say it wont roll up under caution when we weave back and forth--i mean it wont move ---as if you have a 1000 lb weight sitting on the left rear body----it acts like it needs a stronger spring to jump it up---once you get going full throttle it gets on the bars and he can trail brake it to keep it up there thanks

[DirtRacer9x]

Hitting the bumps rf sooner than most? Coil binding rf?

[7uptruckracer]

Whats you actual shocking? What length slip yoke and shaft I've has a car still look hiked but had the shaft bottomed. Will your LRU get to 45 degrees at full drop?

Thanks guys for taking the time to read and help with this problem. I just went and jacked the car up from under the drivers butt and it has no binds and it looked just like all the other cars do on the track when they weave back and forth. the body lifted with no catches until the chain was tight---car looked like it should. i then took all shocks off and their is no problem at any corner. then took off the 4 bars and no binding in the birdcage bearings or hiems. the jbar is at 10 inches on the frame( a little higher than i usually run but trying to find this problem) and even with yoke on the pinion end (about 1 inchor 4 clicks) the rearend is 15 3/4 over( i was at 16 but pulled it over to try that) I have moved lead all over the car and it has not changed the lift--my setup is as follows. springs lf 500, rf 275 on bump, lr175 14 inch and rr 225 12 inch, -- rearend over 15 3/4 --- j bar 10 inch on frame 4 clicks on pinion, all six shocks are new to eliminate a bad shock, lead is 50 lbs on x bar to the right side in center and 25 ibs on rt front about mid ways up near the starter. we have about 15 lbs of bite in car --- left side is 53.8 % and rear is 49 .3 %----when i say it wont roll up under caution when we weave back and forth--i mean it wont move ---as if you have a 1000 lb weight sitting on the left rear body----it acts like it needs a stronger spring to jump it up---once you get going full throttle it gets on the bars and he can trail brake it to keep it up there thanks

[Matt49]

If by "50lbs on x bar" you mean that your ballast is down by the lower frame rails, you need to get that UP. Mount your ballast at about camshaft height and this will really help with weight transfer. If nothing is binding, weight transfer is likely your issue here.
Your car will actually hike easier/faster with a softer LR spring.
Again it's all about weight transfer. A crude example: Let's say you have a car that transfers 400 pounds for LR to RR going into the corner. That would cause a 200 pound LR spring to unload 2 inches. But it would cause a 100 pound LR spring to unload 4 inches. This let's the car hike up faster and get on the bars faster. Then it becomes the bars (not the spring) that are holding the car up once hiked.
Your springs look good (at least close)...I think you have a weight transfer problem and I would start by getting that 50 pounds you have mounted so low (if I'm understanding what you're saying) moved up at least 12 inches.

P.S. I know that weight doesn't just come off the LR and go to the RR (it also goes to LF and RF) but this is just to keep it simple. Bottom line is that the LR is unloading and given the same amount of weight being unloaded, a softer spring will travel more than a stiffer spring. Travel and weight transfer are two different things but one can be controlled with the other...I digress.

[burgessracing]

I was going to change the right front spring to a 325 and try that. it may very well be hitting the bump very quickly. I will check the angle of the ll bar tomorrow night when i am at the shop. It is on the jack stands right now with full drop and i have about 1/2 inch of yoke left out at the back of the transmission.----- matt--yes the 50 lbs is on the very bottom of the car----I will move it ( 2- 25 lb pieces) to the frame rail at 12 inches high or even with the cam---thanks again

[burgessracing]

I forgot to post my bars and ride heights ----ride heights are lf-3 7/8, rf- 3 3/4, rr- 7 1/2 lr 7 3/4 bars are lu 3 down(standard), ll-1 down ( 3 above standard) ru 3 down (standard) rl top hole--------- the lower bars are high to try and make the car turn in better and get on the bars easier ----but has not helped any!!!

[JTSjet]

i also feel like your problem is weight transfer.

for what it's worth...long story short... had a hiccup this season with weight transfer when reducing rear % by reducing fuel load. had a 32 gal rectangular fuel cell in the car, went from 20gal down to 10gal. car picked up a slight push in the middle and the car lost some attitude. it was because the cell weight was concentrated too low behind the rear axle. took a new fuel cell and all is good. not saying that's your problem....just saying...

also a 604 engine in general may need to be positioned slightly higher than a 602/all steel/all alum engine.

just an observation but i've never ran a bite number that low with a left/rear % combo like that. i've never strayed too far from 49-51% crossweight. looks like you're in the 46% area.

[burgessracing]

My left lower bar is in the next to top hole right now on the jack stands with full drop----chain is tight (13 inches) and my angle is 33 degrees ----i dont think it will make it to 45 degrees going up one more hole???????? JTSjet---we have always been told to run 0-20 lbs of left wheel to keep the car free but it has not worked for us. We are always tight in even with the lower bars in the top holes so we are dropping that theory and going to 100 lbs of left wheel and see how that feels. We do have our motor raised one inch in the frame.

[JTSjet]

i wondered if u might be tight in that was going to be my next question. i would start with moving your ballast up as matt49 suggested.

if u are still tight in, u could try increasing your left side weight. it might seem counter productive but the weight needs to transition from left to right with body roll while enhancing body roll at the appropriate time. if too much weight is already on the right it isnt transfering anywhere leaving your car with a flat attitude. keep in mind as you move weight left it needs to be relatively higher to maintain body roll. avoid moving ballast any further from the CG than necessary.

[nguyenvinh2]

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[PushinTheLimit]

How can one tell if the birdcage is binding? I've noticed my car has been "flat" lately and not really getting the left rear hike that I should be.

[7uptruckracer]

Take the bars off the cage and spin it. also check your side to side play and make sure your tube isn't worn out

[PushinTheLimit]

Will do... thanks.

[JustAddDirt]

do you have heims that are Teflon lined? or some sort of liner in them? If so I hope you are not lubing them.
if you have Teflon lined heims, replace them with cheap ones and see if it helps. It may be that the Teflon ones are locking up. I have heard of this happening b4.