nitrogen in tires

[7uptruckracer]

Cup is its own animal for reasons that have nothing to do with a dirt late model/ modified and quite frankly a cop out statement someone uses when their argument is shattered. They run a tire constructed totally different, dirt doesn't see the heat and buildup a Saturday night short track asphalt racer sees. Compressed air will not kill someones night, if you have the funds use nitrogen, if not their are many ways to get equal results on asphalt or dirt for your weekly racer.

Go tell a cup team to go run compressed air 

[DirtRacer9x]

Nitrogen is used for cars driven daily on the street to keep the pressure from fluctuating as well. The point is it is used to keep something on the car more "CONSISTENT". If you want things changing on your car run compressed air. If you want one thing to take out of he equation there are different gasses out to maintain pressures a lot better than compressed air. Lets see how trying to keep something more "CONSISTENT" is a "cop out". 👍

[DirtRacer9x]

Its advertised for use by tire shops as a gimmick to prey on the uneducated and milk them for more money... Everyone with a lick of common sense knows this.

You couldn't be more wrong. You're uneduatced my friend. You stay at your dirt level with your hobby stock and 4 banger knowledge and leave he real engineers to knowing exactly why things are done certain ways. Also, schooling you right now they use nitrogen for the tire sensors so they do not fluctuate drastically from exteeme temperature changes. Now go get that bottle filled and make sure you thank me when you don't start sucking so bad after 5 laps in the dry. We will all be watching for that Nitrogen bottle.

[ric78]

We run nitrogen in our tires. It does help with keeping the pressures more consistent over compressed air. Now do I think it is the only reason we win consistently? Of coarse not. Not getting in the middle of a good argument but my approach to racing is this. If something helps even the smallest of gains why would you not use it? Everyone has all the big things it is the little things and the attention to the smallest of details that separate the good from the best.

[Spbulldog]

You couldn't be more wrong. You're uneduatced my friend. You stay at your dirt level with your hobby stock and 4 banger knowledge and leave he real engineers to knowing exactly why things are done certain ways. Also, schooling you right now they use nitrogen for the tire sensors so they do not fluctuate drastically from exteeme temperature changes. Now go get that bottle filled and make sure you thank me when you don't start sucking so bad after 5 laps in the dry. We will all be watching for that Nitrogen bottle.

Ok. In street tires it has nothing to do with tpms. Hell Chrysler doesn't even use tpms sensors on most cars. It's abt holding consistent pressure to reduce tire wear. And in NASCAR they use it because of the moisture content. Most compressed air is 17 % moisture content where nitrogen is around 12 and that could mean a 1-2 psi change in pressure between two.and 1-2 psi in NASCAR makes a big diff when running on asphalt which makes more heat anyway. In dirt it's abt a 50/50 shot either way. The track doesn't hold as much heat as asphalt and u aren't running 200mph for high lap counts so the tires don't make as much heat. Unless you ARE spinning hell outta your tires which then it really isn't a problem, it's the fool on the throttle causing the pressure changes

[DirtRacer9x]

We run nitrogen in our tires. It does help with keeping the pressures more consistent over compressed air. Now do I think it is the only reason we win consistently? Of coarse not. Not getting in the middle of a good argument but my approach to racing is this. If something helps even the smallest of gains why would you not use it? Everyone has all the big things it is the little things and the attention to the smallest of details that separate the good from the best.

You my friend nailed it on the head. Words from someone wise and not this idiot Jeff Joldersma. This is why he won't EVER go anywhere. But we will be watching for the Nitrogen bottle haha. Everyone watch him and his pit for it.

[DirtRacer9x]

Ok. In street tires it has nothing to do with tpms. Hell Chrysler doesn't even use tpms sensors on most cars. It's abt holding consistent pressure to reduce tire wear. And in NASCAR they use it because of the moisture content. Most compressed air is 17 % moisture content where nitrogen is around 12 and that could mean a 1-2 psi change in pressure between two.and 1-2 psi in NASCAR makes a big diff when running on asphalt which makes more heat anyway. In dirt it's abt a 50/50 shot either way. The track doesn't hold as much heat as asphalt and u aren't running 200mph for high lap counts so the tires don't make as much heat. Unless you ARE spinning hell outta your tires which then it really isn't a problem, it's the fool on the throttle causing the pressure changes

It's actually the brakes causing more heat but nice try  Yes it does have to do with the tire pressure monitoring sensors. They also use it as a sale gimmick to all cars but the sensors would go off more saying warning and activate the stability control on cars once they drop usually 10psi low or te sensors crack.

[Spbulldog]

It's actually the brakes causing more heat but nice try 

Yes that too is another factor. So drive er in hot and slow er up fast and watch those tire pressures

[Spbulldog]

It's actually the brakes causing more heat but nice try  Yes it does have to do with the tire pressure monitoring sensors. They also use it as a sale gimmick to all cars but the sensors would go off more saying warning and activate the stability control on cars once they drop usually 10psi low or te sensors crack.

You have no clue. Tpms isn't even linked to stability control, except for a few Chrysler vehicles that use abs wheel speed sensors to determine low tire pressure. All tpms does is activate a light/ warning when pressure drops 3-5 % mandated by gov. On all model yrs in 2008 . If u think temp change affects those sensors enough to where u need nitrogen to keep them from cracking because of a few % difference in moisture factor I urge you to talk to someone in extreme cold weather climates wher in winter it gets to -25 or better. Your reasoning would make it that they have to change sensors every day because of temp changes. And going from 32 degrees at morning startup to 150 or so because of breaking heat would that not crack them nitrogen or not? Your explanation doesn't hold water at all. And this is coming to you from an ASE cert. master tech A1-A8. L1. X1 P1 for 11 yrs now.

[Spbulldog]

And how would you know the tires have been filled with nitrogen??? Any guesses?

[Spbulldog]

Oh, and by the way....they used compressed air in automobiles for over 100 yrs. it works just fine. Even with TPMS

[DirtRacer9x]

You're a "mechanic" ASE certified so you just fix things. I won't go into to much detail on how I know these things but its not from a mechanics stand point but from more of working with the engineers and testing. But you as the ASE mechanic can change out all the sensors when they come in. Hey one day you should go take a bad sensor on say a GM car and go drive it on the street around a corner at a decent speed and try and tell us all how stability doesn't work with it when it's using the brakes(not lightly either) tryin to keep the car straight. The face you'll make 😳followed by the thought ,"Dirt racer9x was right"😳Barking up the wrong tree here buddy. Stick to repairing them👍Ya Jeff keep on diggin were all watching little guy. 👍

[Spbulldog]

You're a "mechanic" ASE certified so you just fix things. I won't go into to much detail on how I know these things but its not from a mechanics stand point but from more of working with the engineers and testing. But you as the ASE mechanic can change out all the sensors when they come in. Hey one day you should go take a bad sensor on say a GM car and go drive it on the street around a corner at a decent speed and try and tell us all how stability doesn't work with it when it's using the brakes(not lightly either) tryin to keep the car straight. The face you'll make followed by the thought ,"Dirt racer9x was right"Barking up the wrong tree here buddy. Stick to repairing themYa Jeff keep on diggin were all watching little guy. 

You're either drunk,high,or just plain stupid! Maybe YOU should go get your family dr to let's say check you for a concussion or maybe a psychological test. Maybe find all those engineeres you talk abt an tell them u need help getting your cheese back on your cracker because it's slid way off! You're absolutely crazy!

[Spbulldog]

Directly from GM..Here is what GM says about the use of Nitrogen in tires: GM's Position on the Use of nitrogen Gas in Tires (From GM's document #05-03-10-020C: Use of nitrogen Gas in Tires - Apr 27, 2010) General Motors does not oppose the use of purified nitrogen as an inflation gas for tires. We expect the theoretical benefits to be reduced in practical use due to the lack of an existing infrastructure to continuously facilitate inflating tires with nearly pure nitrogen.... Given those theoretical benefits, practical limitations, and the robust design of GM original equipment TPC tires, the realized benefits to our customer of inflating their tires with purified nitrogen are expected to be minimal. The Promise of Nitrogen: Under Controlled Conditions ...The use of nitrogen gas to inflate tires is a technology used in automobile racing. The following benefits under controlled conditions are attributed to nitrogen gas and its unique properties: • A reduction in the expected loss of Tire Pressure over time. • A reduction in the variance of Tire Pressures with temperature changes due to reduction of water vapor concentration. • A reduction of long term rubber degradation due to a decrease in oxygen concentrations. Important: These are obtainable performance improvements when relatively pure nitrogen gas is used to inflate tires under controlled conditions. Where does it state ANYTHING abt tire pressure sensors??

[Spbulldog]

And for the guy that sent me the message abt corvette and Cameros linked stability control and tpms.....when tpms light comes ON. Stability control goes OFF via the traction control system. The 2 are NOT directly linked

[Anonymous24]

The air we breath is 78% Nitrogen. If we air our tires with compressed Nitrogen, even after the purge process, the average maximum amount of Nitrogen is 90% per tire. Even with 90% Nitrogen in a particular tire, there is still 10% of regular compressed air. That 10% still has moisture content. It is the moisture that plays havoc on the air pressure gains/losses. It is more efficient to use dry air rather than Nitrogen. Thanks

[Spbulldog]

The air we breath is 78% Nitrogen. If we air our tires with compressed Nitrogen, even after the purge process, the average maximum amount of Nitrogen is 90% per tire. Even with 90% Nitrogen in a particular tire, there is still 10% of regular compressed air. That 10% still has moisture content. It is the moisture that plays havoc on the air pressure gains/losses. It is more efficient to use dry air rather than Nitrogen. Thanks

Anonymous is correct. Even GM says the "benefits are minimal" of filling tires with nitrogen. Just make sure to keep your compressor drained and that u have a good dryer on the compressor and it should be ok.

[Lizardracing]

Has anyone done any frictional testing between the two? What about atom size? Perhaps there's a leakage issue not addressed yet that proves beneficial on passenger cars. Perhaps there are other reasons Cup Teams and some NHRA Top Fuel teams are using nitrogen besides pressure build up. What the temp gradiant on a cup team car? Ambient to <300'f? Compare that to a typical dirt car of around 150'.

Many Cup teams also use nitrogen to power the air tools. It's common in off roading and trail riding as well. The benefits are a smaller tank that gets the job done but doesn't need extra equipment like an air compressor or electrical requirements to operate. Perhaps this is part of the equation.

[zeroracing]

Honest question dirtracer9x, are you an engineer? Not trying to start a discussion n using nitrogen or not just asking.

[Anonymous24]

This thread surely makes it clear what the green or red colored rectangles represent.