Cost of running a crate late model

[washeduptoo]

They are again trying to start a crate late model series in my area. After the expense of putting car together, how much does it cost to run weekly, fuel, tires etc. Thanks for any information, rules based on Nesmith I think.

[Kwoods25]

Depends on how many tires weekly you buy. And how much you brake. We buy at least 1 tire every week if not 2, that's $300, and fuel is getting high all depends on what you wanna run, It's really not that expensive if you don't brake anything, we spend between 300 and 450 weekly. If you run at a track were they run you over for 5th on back its gonna cost. If you run touring events usually you want mess up a lot of stuff. But then it's about a new set ever race

[Racer63]

The cost is the same as any late model less whatever you would spend on an open or limited motor

[washeduptoo]

Dang, that many tires a week! Don't see how we could afford to do that. Thanks for the information.

[Matt49]

The cost is the same as any late model less whatever you would spend on an open or limited motor

Not exactly.
An open motor burns through tires a lot faster than a crate motor and it is difficult to quantify how much more wear and tear an open motor puts on drive train components. A rear end and transmission in a crate car could easily go 3 season without needing maintenance other than oil changed. They'll easily brake in that amount of time with an 800HP open motor.
And it's not like you just buy an open motor and race it forever with no further expense. It's going to need to be rebuilt at least once per season and that's going to cost more than a brand new crate motor.
Crate motors run just fine on pump gas and doesn't burn it very fast. Open motors burn twice as much fuel and require fuel that cost 3-5 times as much per gallon so you do the math.
Oil changes are more expensive because a dry sump system holds a lot more oil.
Oh yeah, you'll need a dry sump system so there's a few more grand to get that going.

Bottom line is that the week to week expenses of running a crate car are easily less than half of what it costs to run an open.

[Matt49]

And how many tires you go through is going to depend greatly on what kind of tire rules you have, how throttle happy your driver is, and how aggressive you are with the grooving iron. You can save money by being conservative with tires but not many people are saving money and winning races at the same time.

[Kwoods25]

On fastrack we run Hoosier 200 and they wear pretty fast. We ran the 1350s and they were pretty good. But I know fastrack and SECA do not allow grooving so once the edge is gone it's gone. You can only grind so much.

[charlie115]

when I ran creates a few years back and we bought 2 sets at the beginning of the year. had to buy 2 more half way threw the season. we won 21 out of 25 nights with a 01 grt. worst problem we had were the crashes. as long as you have a good setup you wont go threw tires. charlie

[charlie115]

tires not sets

[Rocket10t]

Matt49 is right !. If you want to run upfront it costs... the tires depend on track abrasion as well. I run on a slick track that is not rough on tires. i buy 6 new to start the year. LF, RF, LR, RR and a my best LR, RR, set for a feature tires. you may need to buy a few more since this will be a brand new start for you ( I usually use my last year best few as spares to start the season )then I purchase a new RF, RR, LR as needed throughout the season. I can go 4-6 weeks before buying anything on my weekly track. when running a series race( that's different - need to buy new and sipe/ groove to have any chance of good runs ). But if you stick to one track, check with other drivers in other divisions. see how the track is on their tires they run. these will be diiferent than what you will run but gives you an idea of what the track is like.Once you are up and running, your weekly purse should pay for your entry fee and fuel for car ( hopefully more ). So if you can avoid accidents and damage lol.. it really is not that bad for a crate car. Again, if you are going to race upfront it is going to cost in tires and equipment. But the average Joe can compete and not spend a fortune - may not win races though. still have fun....In my opinion...

[washeduptoo]

Thanks everyone for their input and information. Gonna have to wait and see how or if the crate class actually kicks off this season. Still trying to sell the mods and not sure if racing is even in the future, but I've gotten something to think about at least. Thanks again everyone.

[7uptruckracer]

Alot of guys are going to the 8" rear internals to cut power loss and having to revalve the shocks for the crate. You have to replace valve springs often which is fairly cheap.

[Matt49]

Those 8" rears are ridiculously priced. $2K without tubes.
The old style valve springs did need to be replaced frequently and even when new were not always to spec.
The new bee hive style spring kit is where it's at. More reliable and last much longer.

[PushinTheLimit]

Yep, the new blue beehive springs are great. I installed mine at the first of 2014, ran 14 races and 4 practice days and everything still checks out good and visual inspection was good too.

[Matt49]

I don't understand how running an open motor vs crate will burn off more tires. Sounds like a major driver issue and a change in that seat is needed. 

Sounds like a major trip back to high school physics is needed for you then.

Friction is what makes the car accelerate, decelerate, and go around corners. When you are accelerating and decelerating more and going around corners faster (all these are the case with an open versus a crate) you create MORE friction.
Friction is what caused tire wear.

If you want to insult my driving on its own, that's fine by me and quite warranted actually. Driver is the reason my car isn't up front as much as it should be. But keep those comments separate from attempting to discredit anything I say from a technical standpoint.

[Matt49]

It's a driver issue bud. Sorry to "brake" it to yuh. Get it, "brake" like maybe you're overdriving the open...

Well then you're about as funny as you are intelligent.

Based on most of your previous posts, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp.

[Kwoods25]

open motor will burn a tire up a lot faster, yes a driver can learn throttle control to help save tires. but when you can throttle up at anytime and spin tires over there gonna burn up faster. in crates we don't really burn a tire up unless the track is super dry, if the track is prepped right your tires will last a lot longer, and compound plays a big roll in this. if you run Hoosier FT200s they will burn up quick, like 1 or 2 races, Hoosier 1350s last a pretty long time, also American Racer 48s i believe i could run them all freakin year,

[Matt49]

I agree with you on tire compounds. But you take a crate motor and throw in an open on a dry track you better be doing the same times. If anything you'll be slower with the open because the window is a lot narrower when it comes to putting the power down smoothly. Matt49 I really think you need a reality check bud. Of course we would want an open motor on a tacked up track. We can put the power down but on a dry slicked up track you better believe the open motor won't be close to 800 HP. There are many ways to look at this but essentially we want to eliminate wheel spin. That simple. It causes heat and too much HP covers up handling issues if you don't have a driver that understands this then find another driver or have him learn this. Putting in a crate motor can really help dial your car in because the set up won't be masked by HP/wheel spin. But what would I know right. Spin your tires You top fuel dragsters 

The fact that you think putting a crate motor in a late model is going to help dial in the setup for an open in the same car demonstrates how clueless you are. They require very different setups and anybody that knows anything about late models knows that...apparently you don't.
You can take wheel spin COMPLETELY out of the topic because that isn't even what I'm talking about.
Let me explain some things to you...
Tire wear comes as a result of heat. Heat comes as a result of friction.
Friction comes with all of the forces that are placed on a tire in all direction and it doesn't have to be sliding to generate heat from friction.
Friction and slipping/spinning are OPPOSITES, not the same thing. More speed by definition requires more friction. Friction is the force that is ultimately KEEPING the tire on the track. The faster you accelerate, decelerate, or turn, the more friction you are going to have. These are the laws of physics. If you want to continue to argue with them, go right ahead.

It is physically IMPOSSIBLE to increase speed around a race track and not increase friction...whether you are spinning tires to do it or not is irrelevant.

[Matt49]

Dude, you need to check yourself. You started on this forum just a few months ago posting a bunch of questions that demonstrated your ignorance of a lot of very basic aspects of vehicle dynamics. Myself and others on this very thread even answered those question for you. This is perfect place for question so nobody takes offense even if it is something very basic. We all started somewhere. Anybody can go back and see all of your past posts in case you didn't know...so you're not fooling anybody. But just to recap for those who haven't been paying attention or don't feel like looking at your past posts:
You think stagger is a thing of the past and not needed today
You have had basic questions about what 4-bar angle and length changes do
You have had basic questions about air pressure in tires
You have had basic questions about how LR bite affects handling
You have had basic questions about the need for camber gain
You're completely in the dark on how modern RF shock/spring setups work
And you don't understand the existence of sprint cars...for some reason...
I could go on and on...

So you look like a complete jack@ss getting on here now and trying to tell me that I need data acquisition before I have "room to talk" about how friction and heat work and how they affect tire wear. Especially since 4 months ago you didn't know your d!ck from a drive shaft.

[Racer63]

You sir are a know it all then and don't understand the words "what do you think". That simple.

Dirtracer = Dynoman reincarnated? J/K Well maybe.