Have I got last weekend right here??? ....

[hook]

On Saturday, Senoia & Chatsworth in Georgia raced Super Late Models while on the Columbus, GA border, the first night of the rescheduled Bama Bash ran...

Then on Sunday, Lavonia GA raced and the Bama Bash concluded.

I think the biggest car count I saw was 24 at any of these and the smallest was 11 but that one had 2 of the biggest names in the business at it..

I think 56 Late Models competed at one of the 3 Saturday night

Not much love out that way or what???

[hook]

Just mapquested all these towns and it's like they all fit in the same 1/2, maybe same 1/3 of Georgia too. Then for grins I added Winchester, TN who was also scheduled to run but postponed a week. Gees!

[W2Racing09]

Yeah everything close together, I was surprised with the Ultimate counts but not with the Bama Bash.

I think a bunch of people were planning to hit some of the other shows that were postponed and just didn't make the switch to another venue when their show was canned. If none of those other races had been scheduled to begin with the counts probably would have been slightly better.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[B_K]

Senoia was a regular show. They are going to run supers weekly this year.

EAMS was rained out the week before, and rescheduled for last weekend.

I think weather played a factor in all of the car counts. I know as far as NGS goes the racing was fantastic, and so was the track. Going in I was expecting it to be a cornfield with all the rain/snow of the last 2-3 weeks.

None of the car counts were very good. If not for limiteds running super, I don't think one of those would have had 14 cars.

[fastford]

maybe everyone was busy switching over to those 525 crate motors, saw where they let one run with the limiteds with all steel motors at the bash , and guess what? it won , also no weight break for the all steel engine , I guess every one wanting to race limited should run buy a 525 now.

[W2Racing09]

I don't think a CT525 needs a weight break when running with LLM. Just with SLM.

I also think LLM (Steel Block) cars should get a weight break when running against SLM. The counts may have been higher this weekend if rules were more accommodating. I'm sure East Alabama was real happy with that SLM car count for a $6500 to win show... I'm sure they will schedule another one next week now that they know they will almost get a full field.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[champion24]

Very few "true Supers" at Senoia or EAMS. It's a shame, but we have to get used to it.

[fastford]

I don't think a CT525 needs a weight break when running with LLM. Just with SLM.

I also think LLM (Steel Block) cars should get a weight break when running against SLM. The counts may have been higher this weekend if rules were more accommodating. I'm sure East Alabama was real happy with that SLM car count for a $6500 to win show... I'm sure they will schedule another one next week now that they know they will almost get a full field.

Thanks,
Jeff.

I have drawn the conclusion you have no idea what u are talking about , get u a dirt car and go racing and we will talk again, good day...

[W2Racing09]

I have drawn the conclusion you have no idea what u are talking about , get u a dirt car and go racing and we will talk again, good day...

I could certainly say the same thing about you from the opposite perspective (the Track). It is certainly not profitable to pay a group of 14 or 15 SLM and 6 or 7 LLM (for a total of 21 cars) a purse that pays $6500 to win + lap money. Would it not be better to have a rules package where cars from the SUPR series, FUEL series, etc. would be competitive and you could have drawn from that large group of cars as well? That could have been the difference between 21 cars and 30 or 35.

Keep in mind I didn't start this,

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Bubstr]

Could it be, there are just too many different classes? If you start splitting the pie more ways, the pieces of the pie get smaller. There was a day, when we had stock cars. Then we had Modifieds, super modifieds, six cylinder mods and Late models. Then there was added hobby stocks, compacts, crate, limited mods, sportsman ot hobby stocks and LMs ect. Is it time to get all of the country on fewer classes, with a common rule book. I don't like the idea of racing Apples with Oranges. I don't think, many people do, unless it gives their Apple or Orange an advantage.

[W2Racing09]

Could it be, there are just too many different classes? If you start splitting the pie more ways, the pieces of the pie get smaller. There was a day, when we had stock cars. Then we had Modifieds, super modifieds, six cylinder mods and Late models. Then there was added hobby stocks, compacts, crate, limited mods, sportsman ot hobby stocks and LMs ect. Is it time to get all of the country on fewer classes, with a common rule book. I don't like the idea of racing Apples with Oranges. I don't think, many people do, unless it gives their Apple or Orange an advantage.

I don't really think it is a matter of racing apples against oranges. It would be more like making them different types of apples. One may be a Gala and the other a Macintosh, they are different but they are both still apples.

That would be the way the CT525 crate could run with the SLM. They might be different (Crate motor, 100lbs less weight and a bigger spoiler) but in the end they are both running around the same times, and the average fan does not know the difference.

I do agree there are too many classes, that is why combining the CT525 cars with the SLM makes sense. Some tracks may have 5 SLM cars that would run with them, and 8 CT525 cars. Well that is one race of 13 rather than two races of 5 and 8. Not to mention it helps the track because they are running the same lap times with the rules changes and they can call them Super Late Models so the fans still come out. There would be parity because you still have Open LMs running against the Crates and some nights the track will be WFO and the open cars will be faster, and other nights the track will be real slick and you will have crate cars able to control wheel spin better. In the end it would come down to the drivers, but the cars would still allow for some interesting situations.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Bubstr]

If you believe that, you should have no problem allowing the SLM to run the Crate and Limited, big dollar specials, if they add 100 lbs. I can hear them crying now. The big boys stole our money. Their are some now that complain about SLM dropping in a crate engine to run some crate events. There needs to be a start up class, but not 3 or 4 of them. If the start up class is that close to being competitive with the SLM, is there a good reason for them? If a cheaper class is needed, there should be a cheaper class made. One class nation wide, that is truly cheaper. Not a almost SLM. Start with OEM cast iron engines and transmissions, smaller and harder tire and non adjustable shocks. Possibly a spec head or restrictor plate. Although, I believe the tire would make the money spender smart, very quickly. You could even give weight breaks and spoiler to the crate engine, like IMCA Mods do. By the way there is a big difference between a Johnathon and a Delicious. It's coming down to SLM will only race as a touring series, not 2 or 3 with unsanctioned races in between and I don't think there is much we can do about that. A lot like Sprint cars and Midgets, with a couple hot beds in the country to supply new talent.

[fastford]

I could certainly say the same thing about you from the opposite perspective (the Track). It is certainly not profitable to pay a group of 14 or 15 SLM and 6 or 7 LLM (for a total of 21 cars) a purse that pays $6500 to win + lap money. Would it not be better to have a rules package where cars from the SUPR series, FUEL series, etc. would be competitive and you could have drawn from that large group of cars as well? That could have been the difference between 21 cars and 30 or 35.

Keep in mind I didn't start this,

Thanks,
Jeff.

im not talking about this from a track perspective, since ive never owned or ran one, but we do field a limited late model with the rules being an all steel engine and a weight of 2300 lbs, which WAS kind of a standard set of rules here in the south east for years, now your telling me you think its fair for me to have to compete with an equal , if not a more powerful , all aluminum engine at the same weight ? whats fair about this? I say keep the all steel engines separate from the supers, if a track does not have a crate class, then give the 602 a weight break, but not the 604, because of the aluminum heads, but keep the all aluminum engines in supers only.

[pink floyd]

all this talk about apples is making rose and I very hungry.

[W2Racing09]

If you believe that, you should have no problem allowing the SLM to run the Crate and Limited, big dollar specials, if they add 100 lbs. I can hear them crying now. The big boys stole our money. Their are some now that complain about SLM dropping in a crate engine to run some crate events. There needs to be a start up class, but not 3 or 4 of them. If the start up class is that close to being competitive with the SLM, is there a good reason for them? If a cheaper class is needed, there should be a cheaper class made. One class nation wide, that is truly cheaper. Not a almost SLM. Start with OEM cast iron engines and transmissions, smaller and harder tire and non adjustable shocks. Possibly a spec head or restrictor plate. Although, I believe the tire would make the money spender smart, very quickly. You could even give weight breaks and spoiler to the crate engine, like IMCA Mods do. By the way there is a big difference between a Johnathon and a Delicious. It's coming down to SLM will only race as a touring series, not 2 or 3 with unsanctioned races in between and I don't think there is much we can do about that. A lot like Sprint cars and Midgets, with a couple hot beds in the country to supply new talent.

I wouldn't have any problem with that --- because it would just become an SLM show. If you have a CT525 (please note... CT525... I get the feeling you are thinking of Crate late models, IE 602/604) and Steel Block show and you allow SLM in (with a 100lb weight penalty) then its pretty much the same thing. The difference being that the Steel Blocks and CT525s would have to weigh 2300lb at an SLM show (Good luck Steel Blocks) and the SLM would weight 2400lb. If the SLM was racing down into the LLM division they would have to be 2500lb and the other two would be 2400lb. I would just say use one set of rules (Steel Block/CT525 at 2300lb and SLM at 2400lb) and use that for all of the big non CLM (604/602) shows. Everyone is right on too many divisions -- this would solve that problem by combining open/steel block/ct525 engines into one division.

Look at the uFO/Hesston rules for this season if you want a good idea on how that would work. I think they even have a spec motor worked into the equation too.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[W2Racing09]

im not talking about this from a track perspective, since ive never owned or ran one, but we do field a limited late model with the rules being an all steel engine and a weight of 2300 lbs, which WAS kind of a standard set of rules here in the south east for years, now your telling me you think its fair for me to have to compete with an equal , if not a more powerful , all aluminum engine at the same weight ? whats fair about this? I say keep the all steel engines separate from the supers, if a track does not have a crate class, then give the 602 a weight break, but not the 604, because of the aluminum heads, but keep the all aluminum engines in supers only.

Here in the Mid Atlantic you couldn't give a 604 away to a LLM driver. They have absolutely no chance at any race against the steel block 358 LMs in Central PA or in the LLM division at Winchester/Hagerstown/Bedford/etc.

A CT525 on the other hand should not get any breaks when running with the Steel Blocks. I would consider them as close to equal as it gets with the Steel Blocks having a little bit of advantage when conditions are WFO and the CT525 having the edge when the track is slick.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[fastford]

Here in the Mid Atlantic you couldn't give a 604 away to a LLM driver. They have absolutely no chance at any race against the steel block 358 LMs in Central PA or in the LLM division at Winchester/Hagerstown/Bedford/etc.

A CT525 on the other hand should not get any breaks when running with the Steel Blocks. I would consider them as close to equal as it gets with the Steel Blocks having a little bit of advantage when conditions are WFO and the CT525 having the edge when the track is slick.

Thanks,
Jeff.

I agree about the 604 stuff, even though a guy won half the races down here with one last year until someone tore him down and he was found to be illegal on some technicality, our limited don't run steel block and aluminum heads, there 358 all steel, your talking close to 200 lbs heaver than a 525, that's to much difference to have to run same min. weight

[W2Racing09]

I agree about the 604 stuff, even though a guy won half the races down here with one last year until someone tore him down and he was found to be illegal on some technicality, our limited don't run steel block and aluminum heads, there 358 all steel, your talking close to 200 lbs heaver than a 525, that's to much difference to have to run same min. weight

I think most Steel Blocks have 100+ more HP than the CT525. I think in many situations 100+ HP is worth 200lb (more likely 125 - 150 because the CT525 would be under the limit and need to add weight). Obviously in some track types you could win an SLM race with a Pure Stock so nothing can be done there but when the track is fast at all that HP will have an edge.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Punisher88]

The 525 is much much closer than that. Most probably have MORE torque than the steel motors. Which was evident this weekend at the bash. I ram second in the steel block class to madden and off the corners mine was lifting the left front with so much traction and using all the motor and he was just pulling away. And I've also talked to a couple guys that said on the dyno with all lightweight bolt ons that it has 580 at the flywheel. So if that is true then it is probably only about 20 horsepower short of some of the best steel motors made. And to add to the torque part. The torque curve is basically a straight line. It isn't nearly as much of a spike and drop like a built motor.

[fastford]

congrats on a good run punisher, if they had not allowed that BS, you would have won. by the way I have seen a 525 dyno a little over 600 hp fully tuned, but its not the power as much as its the weight distribution. if both cars has to weigh the same, the car with 200lbs less noes weight has a huge advantage, now on a real tacky track, might not be as bad, but about june around here and when the tracks go slick, , you can forget it...