For the NASCAR H8RS

[Barbecueboy]

do you enjoy seeing the winner cross the checkers 3-5 laps ahead of the second place car?

Maybe not the actual race domination by the winner by 3 laps......but the racing that went on behind him????

Yes, it was better...........in my opinion.......we all have em.

[kidrock]

The racing even today can be better back in the field then for the lead.

[Highside Hustler25]

All good points BBQ. Not knocking the racing back then, but they did have some snoozers. And present day NASCAR does have some good ones. Just not as many as we'd like to see.

[drano]

do you enjoy seeing the winner cross the checkers 3-5 laps ahead of the second place car?

I guess you just had to be there.

[hpmaster]

Here is how the 80"s started and ended


1989 Cup

Rusty Wallace – 4176
Dale Earnhardt – 4164
Mark Martin – 4053
Darrell Waltrip – 3971
Ken Schrader – 3876
Bill Elliott – 3774
Harry Gant – 3610
Ricky Rudd – 3608
Geoff Bodine – 3600
Terry Labonte – 3569

1980 Cup

2-Dale Earnhardt 4661
11-Cale Yarborough 4642
27-Benny Parsons 4278
43-Richard Petty 4255
88-Darrell Waltrip 4239
15-Bobby Allison 4019
90-Jody Ridley 3972
44-Terry Labonte 3766
71-Dave Marcis 3745
3-Richard Childress 3742

[CIRF]

In 1988 NASCAR rules first mandated the front valence instead of the stock bumper, etc., which in MHO was the first step towards the spec racer we know today, thus the first step towards the cars being super aero sensitive. 1988 was also the first year of the restrictor plate at Daytona & Talladega, which in MHO was beginning of the end of real racing at those venues. By real racing I mean racing and passing much, much less dependent on drafting help.

Also going back even further than the mid to late 1980's was the elimination of the dirt tracks in 1971, which eliminated a large portion of the track diversity which always appeals to many. Same thing happened with Indy Car racing at exactly the same time, 1971, for exactly the same reasons and many of the old timers claim that was the genesis of the decline of Indy Car racing.

If all the above mentioned changes are taken into account I'd say yep, the racin' as a whole was better back in those days but on the same token no one can deny that there has been some great racing since those days.

[drano]

Looking back the running of the radial tire vs the bias-ply tire was more significant to racing than anyone thought, it started taking the driving away from drivers and mechanics and leaning toward engineering you could no longer run the car in the corner much like a dirt car and get the bite with the tire and then go, if it slipped a little you worked the wheel and drove it on around with the radial you slipped and you were gone.

[Barbecueboy]

The racing even today can be better back in the field then for the lead.

And mostly always is..........

[Barbecueboy]

All good points BBQ. Not knocking the racing back then, but they did have some snoozers. And present day NASCAR does have some good ones. Just not as many as we'd like to see.

PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!

bingo!

Well said HH,not near as many as I would like to see!!!

[plunks7]

If you really look at Nascar their are only about 10 drivers out of 43 than can win on a weekly basis. With this so called New system (started last year) if you win your in! They take the top 12 I think in points for the chase. Now here is where my point is made. If there was a different winner for every race ( not a repeat winner). How could Nascar say you win your in. I know there are more than 12 races.
My point being: Nascar starts 43 cars and around the same 10 drivers will win. Same drivers start up front just about every week. Now you tell me where the excitement is!!! If you are already in. You should have to start in the back? You don't even have to go out and qualify. Now there would be some excitement!!

[kidrock]

I still believe if they would go to a format like your local dirt track you would have better races and more excitement from tne fans. Could you imagine heat races a B-main and then a A-main. With the A-main no more then 100 laps.

[Captain Happy]

Yeah, instead of coming to four hour 4play scripted fight... let there be a race with heats and an A main!!!

[mudslinger47]

I still believe if they would go to a format like your local dirt track you would have better races and more excitement from tne fans. Could you imagine heat races a B-main and then a A-main. With the A-main no more then 100 laps.

Could be in favor of that but it would have to be long enough for wear and tear to work in to the mix....those of you talking about the racing in the 80's, get over it, it ain't coming back and our chase format this last year was awesome...Harvick is the champ and darned near didn't get to compete for it, how much more drama do you want? Four drivers, winner take all...don't get much better then that....and because your guy didn't make it, then I guess he shoulda tried harder....

[Nasty55]

Could be in favor of that but it would have to be long enough for wear and tear to work in to the mix....those of you talking about the racing in the 80's, get over it, it ain't coming back and our chase format this last year was awesome...Harvick is the champ and darned near didn't get to compete for it, how much more drama do you want? Four drivers, winner take all...don't get much better then that....and because your guy didn't make it, then I guess he shoulda tried harder....

See this new format is where my problem lays though because although I know your gonna slam me for saying it their were drivers that deserved to race for that championship that were shut out of it based on their season wins!!! I still feel that if a driver wins 2-3 races then he should automatically be in not have to race down to the last lap of race 26 just to find out that he's not in it!!! Just my honest opinion!!

[Nasty55]

Yeah, instead of coming to four hour 4play scripted fight... let there be a race with heats and an A main!!!

True that my friend that would most definitely make for better racing again...

[Barbecueboy]

Could be in favor of that but it would have to be long enough for wear and tear to work in to the mix....those of you talking about the racing in the 80's, get over it, it ain't coming back and our chase format this last year was awesome...Harvick is the champ and darned near didn't get to compete for it, how much more drama do you want? Four drivers, winner take all...don't get much better then that....and because your guy didn't make it, then I guess he shoulda tried harder....

Yeah, why in the world would anybody want nascar to be as jammed packed in the stands , as watched on the tv as competitive on the track and as financially bullish as they were in the 80s and 90s?????

The nerve ...............

[hpmaster]

Run three 25 lap heat races with 14 cars in each heat draw for start position, the last 43rd starter is in the last heat. 15 points for the heat winner and drop to 10 for second 3rd gets 5 and the car with the most passes gets another 5 points. Forth place back all get 2 points each. Feature start positions based on first 14 finishers draw for the front 7 rows then the next 14 draw for the middle 7 rows then the last 15 draw for the last rows. Feature points are 43 to the winner and back from there. There the world of NASCAR is all good.

[CIRF]

Could be in favor of that but it would have to be long enough for wear and tear to work in to the mix....those of you talking about the racing in the 80's, get over it, it ain't coming back and our chase format this last year was awesome...Harvick is the champ and darned near didn't get to compete for it, how much more drama do you want? Four drivers, winner take all...don't get much better then that....and because your guy didn't make it, then I guess he shoulda tried harder....

I have to agree, 1980's NASCAR ain't comin' back, myself and about 1/2 the fan base of the 1980''s & 1990'a ain't comin' back either. And, all of us who ain't comin' back to the gimmicked up bull$hit that is present day NASCAR are "over it", too!

I don't pay much attention to NASCAR these days so there is no such thing as "my guy", unless ya' wanna' count Kyle Larson.

However, I got a lot more enjoyment out of watching Larson win the USAC Silver Crown Ted Horn Memorial 100 at Du Quoin, Illinois, all 3 of the USAC National Touring Series A-mains at the 4 Crown at Eldora and The Turkey Night Grand Prix USAC National Midget race at Perris in 2012 than I ever would watching him win races driving a Cup car.

Winning a Cup race these days boils down to whoever is able to play the gimmicks most successfully so why bother to care or watch.

The last guy I thoroughly enjoyed watching win a championship was Bobby Labonte in 2000 for several reasons that we won't get into now. There hasn't been a legitimate Cup Champion since Matt Kenseth in 2003, all the rest have been gimmicked up shams.

Try another angle 'cause that one just don't wash!

[Barbecueboy]

I have to agree, 1980's NASCAR ain't comin' back, myself and about 1/2 the fan base of the 1980''s & 1990'a ain't comin' back either. And, all of us who ain't comin' back to the gimmicked up bull$hit that is present day NASCAR are "over it", too!

I don't pay much attention to NASCAR these days so there is no such thing as "my guy", unless ya' wanna' count Kyle Larson.

However, I got a lot more enjoyment out of watching Larson win the USAC Silver Crown Ted Horn Memorial 100 at Du Quoin, Illinois, all 3 of the USAC National Touring Series A-mains at the 4 Crown at Eldora and The Turkey Night Grand Prix USAC National Midget race at Perris in 2012 than I ever would watching him win races driving a Cup car.

Winning a Cup race these days boils down to whoever is able to play the gimmicks most successfully so why bother to care or watch.

The last guy I thoroughly enjoyed watching win a championship was Bobby Labonte in 2000 for several reasons that we won't get into now. There hasn't been a legitimate Cup Champion since Matt Kenseth in 2003, all the rest have been gimmicked up shams.

Try another angle 'cause that one just don't wash!

MUDs reply to this ought to be a doozy..............I'm going to go ahead and give him the democratic thumbs up state of the union approval on it already since that will be what his message will be.

No cause for alarm, the state of nascars union is strong!!!!!!!!!( insert, biased " emperor not wearing any clothes and all is well" hearded sheep applause here)

[CIRF]

BBQB, I'm sure your prediction of an "all is well in NASCAR" response will be prophetic, and also equally pathetic!!

These processed and canned responses such as "let it go", "get over it", "put it behind you" are almost always nothing more than an empty dismissal of the point that is trying to be made sans any attempt to offer any valid alternative point of view.

Generally when those worn out cliche's are tossed around the attention span shortens up considerably.

As I mentioned above, many of us have long since "let it go", "moved on", "gotten over it" and "put it behind us" in reference to NASCAR and most of us will never be back.

What was much harder to watch fade away (and still is) was the great racing we all used to enjoy week after week. Many of us may never put away the sadness of watching ALL that be completely destroyed by all the forward thinking, gimmick minded corporate geniuses who now run NASCAR.