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Thread: Hoosier A40S

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by blncfn57 View Post
    I have nothing against that tire, but are you serious? UMP listened to the guys that can't set a car up so that D's would last and basically made that tire not legal anywhere. Then they said, take the spoilers away, that will level the playing field since the guys won't be able to hook up the car without a spoiler. I'm not sure if you paid attention to the florida mod races, but the cars were FASTER this year without the soft tires and without them traction gaining spoilers. If you are worried about the engines, then either petition for some type of engine rule, a track issued restrictor plate, or use the claim rule. This B.S. with changing tires year to year and body dimensions/rules is dumb. The first place to start with saving the class is actually enforcing the rules that are already printed!!
    Again, you're correct. HOWEVER, UMP is not going to tech or enforce anything, and promoters won't for fear of running someone off, or offending the front runners. To top that off, UMP is who is changing the rules to this BS. The engines aren't helping anyone either. 800hp former 'cup engines, and the like that cost $20K and up to race for $600 is just plain stupid. Also, the D hoosiers aren't the answer. They are baby butt soft, and allow you to hook up a LOT of engine. They also wear out quicker than a hard tire, like the KK704. I'll look into my crystal ball here, and tell you that in 10 years, UMP modifieds won't be racing weekly at but a few tracks, the limited modifieds will have their rules changed to more of what an A mod was a few years ago, and car counts will be down, tracks will close, and the purses will be what they are currently with the same few cars racing each other for those purses. Now, let's see how it plays out. Good luck all and have a safe weekend.
    Last edited by modracr41; 04-17-2015 at 03:40 PM.

  2. #62
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    When you're shredding the edges on the RR tire in 3 hot laps, there is a problem.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by modracr41 View Post
    Again, you're correct. HOWEVER, UMP is not going to tech or enforce anything, and promoters won't for fear of running someone off, or offending the front runners. To top that off, UMP is who is changing the rules to this BS. The engines aren't helping anyone either. 800hp former 'cup engines, and the like that cost $20K and up to race for $600 is just plain stupid. Also, the D hoosiers aren't the answer. They are baby butt soft, and allow you to hook up a LOT of engine. They also wear out quicker than a hard tire, like the KK704. I'll look into my crystal ball here, and tell you that in 10 years, UMP modifieds won't be racing weekly at but a few tracks, the limited modifieds will have their rules changed to more of what an A mod was a few years ago, and car counts will be down, tracks will close, and the purses will be what they are currently with the same few cars racing each other for those purses. Now, let's see how it plays out. Good luck all and have a safe weekend.
    I can't disagree with this post in general, but I will comment on a few points.

    The tracks all have the option of allowing however many of the hoosier emod tires that they wish. Most, if not all tracks have not been allowing the D's, but are allowing the A, H, and the new A40S. That is the tracks choice. I never said the D tire was the answer, just that the folks that couldn't make them work lobbied until they are virtually not allowed and now look what we got, a tire that's worse yet! Until this fiasco is straightened out what is a racer supposed to do?? buy H's???
    I also do not feel that you are going to discourage the guys that have the big money to spend. If they don't spend it on motors they will find somewhere else to spend it. More than likely it will get spent on technology and engineering help, which puts the little guy at a bigger disadvantage than he was at racing against a big motor. I do not know the answer to fix the class, but I do feel the intimidation of going thru a decent tech inspection every night would help, if nothing else it would make everyone feel better knowing that the cars are tech'd. Heck, I haven't even seen a track check the brakes on all the cars in prolly close to 10 years.... that in itself is scary!!!

  4. #64

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    Take away the 4 link rear suspension, allow 3 link rear suspension only with around a 40 inch lift bar, max 5 shocks on the car, 2500 engine claim or exchange rule, American Racer medium compound tires, 2400 minimum weight, enforce the rules and let's go race. Back to basics ....save the class.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by lou9a View Post
    Take away the 4 link rear suspension, allow 3 link rear suspension only with around a 40 inch lift bar, max 5 shocks on the car, 2500 engine claim or exchange rule, American Racer medium compound tires, 2400 minimum weight, enforce the rules and let's go race. Back to basics ....save the class.
    Most of those rules are already in place. They call them B mods or Sport mods. Not going to happen to the A mods.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by race21j View Post
    Most of those rules are already in place. They call them B mods or Sport mods. Not going to happen to the A mods.
    not in UMP, they allow 4 bars for Bmods and are mandating crates.....again not helping things. Now IMCA sport mod rules much like what you describe 3 links etc. UMP bmods still use the same (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)ty tire we are stuck with too.

  7. #67
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    I like 4 bar cars.... a lot of them cars out there to get hands on reasonable.....just restrict the engines is what makes it cost affective and get us a good tire....

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by indyboywilliam View Post
    I like 4 bar cars.... a lot of them cars out there to get hands on reasonable.....just restrict the engines is what makes it cost affective and get us a good tire....
    Indy the 4 bar setup is part of the issue with this class. Keeping 4bar does not help, btw switching a 4 bar to a 3link could not be much easier. # bar and leaf cars only and some actual engine rules and real tire and this class would last a while longer.

  9. #69
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    No matter how many rules you put in place, the fast guys will still be fast. The more rules you put in place, the more expensive it gets. Look at nascar. There engine rules are very strict, it is also one of the most expensive engines to build.

  10. #70
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    "The only engine rule restriction should be a hard tire." I read that in a magazine a month ago.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtracerl77 View Post
    No matter how many rules you put in place, the fast guys will still be fast. The more rules you put in place, the more expensive it gets. Look at nascar. There engine rules are very strict, it is also one of the most expensive engines to build.
    BINGO! and what do you think will happen when there is only ONE tire and it is HARD?

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by blncfn57 View Post
    BINGO! and what do you think will happen when there is only ONE tire and it is HARD?
    harder tire would make at least the tires costs less, less to buy and last longer so this would be an improvement and harder to hook up would help the class. Yes fast dudes will be fast still. The current program is not working so its easy to say that ideas wont work, but we already know whats not working, its called the current UMP and there over priced tire, to continue to go down this path is not the answer

  13. #73
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    Well I think we all agree on the Tire Rule..... That's a start... HARD TIRES ..... = GOOD FOR SPORT

  14. #74
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    I never had a problem with the old A. Our testing, on the few laps I had on the A S tire, is that it had the same wear characteristic as the D. I see no reason for tires that soft in the modified. Hoosier announced that they are going to make a H in a 26.5 also.

  15. #75
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    when are they making H 26.5 ???

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadegarrett View Post
    harder tire would make at least the tires costs less, less to buy and last longer so this would be an improvement and harder to hook up would help the class. Yes fast dudes will be fast still. The current program is not working so its easy to say that ideas wont work, but we already know whats not working, its called the current UMP and there over priced tire, to continue to go down this path is not the answer
    would it cost less? are you going to say that when the hot shots are doping their tires and if you don't you are back in the same boat you are now? Who covers the cost of the labs to check tires to keep people from doping them? It all costs money! Have you ever been to an open mod show where they allow IMCA/USMTS type rules along with UMP? The tires are not that big of a difference. The guys that run hard tires all the time are very good on them and they win against the emod tires a fair share of the time. Racers are not going to give up on traction. Take the simple things like tires away and it will cause more to be spent somewhere else to make up for it.

    How many heat cycles can be put thru a tire before it isn't any good anymore? If a tire has tread that still looks like new, does that make it a good tire? Even with a hard tire, isn't the guy that can afford new ones the most often at an advantage?

    Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the guys that should be in hornet cars to begin with complained and got the soft tires and spoilers taken away. What happened? The guys that spend time working on their cars instead of complaining how unfair things are, went to florida and put down faster lap times than they did with the soft tires and spoilers. Yet we still have people thinking hard tires will bring their backmarker friend up to speed with the guys that work on their stuff and can drive!

    rant over

  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by blncfn57 View Post
    would it cost less? are you going to say that when the hot shots are doping their tires and if you don't you are back in the same boat you are now? Who covers the cost of the labs to check tires to keep people from doping them? It all costs money! Have you ever been to an open mod show where they allow IMCA/USMTS type rules along with UMP? The tires are not that big of a difference. The guys that run hard tires all the time are very good on them and they win against the emod tires a fair share of the time. Racers are not going to give up on traction. Take the simple things like tires away and it will cause more to be spent somewhere else to make up for it.How many heat cycles can be put thru a tire before it isn't any good anymore? If a tire has tread that still looks like new, does that make it a good tire? Even with a hard tire, isn't the guy that can afford new ones the most often at an advantageLike I mentioned in an earlier post, the guys that should be in hornet cars to begin with complained and got the soft tires and spoilers taken away. What happened? The guys that spend time working on their cars instead of complaining how unfair things are, went to florida and put down faster lap times than they did with the soft tires and spoilers. Yet we still have people thinking hard tires will bring their backmarker friend up to speed with the guys that work on their stuff and can drive!rant over
    ok let's see so you are saying that we are somehow better of with no engine rules and a soft overpriced tire....so it costs more to run the class and somehow this is better?"""I don't agree. What you think people aren't doping tires now?? Lolwouldn't matter cause ump is not doing any tech anyway. this class would be much better off with a cheaper tire that's harder and costs less and some tech right now things are not great and costs are way up, so again exactly how is the better?I have new for you, you can work on your setup 24/7, but right now the top cars in ump have 25k in engine alone,....and a soft tires to hook it up with. Try hooking up same hp on harder tire, and it will not be near as easy. Not only that but a cheaper tire allows more teams to get newer tires. We have been doing it the ump way no for years and the only class that's growing are bmods and sport mods. If your theory is correct then why aren't amods growing in numbers??
    Last edited by wadegarrett; 04-20-2015 at 07:27 PM.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadegarrett View Post
    ok let's see so you are saying that we are somehow better of with no engine rules and a soft overpriced tire....so it costs more to run the class and somehow this is better?"""I don't agree. What you think people aren't doping tires now?? Lolwouldn't matter cause ump is not doing any tech anyway. this class would be much better off with a cheaper tire that's harder and costs less and some tech right now things are not great and costs are way up, so again exactly how is the better?


    I don't think you get the point. The guys that are fast are fast because they live, eat and breathe racing. They spend time working on their cars and understand what the car needs instead of guessing and spending money where they don't need to. The guys that rely on others to tell them how to setup their car and don't understand why they are making the changes are often outspending the guys they are crying about and/or accusing of cheating. These days everyone wants and has the ability to buy a bolt together car, no skills needed. They want to spend stupid money on a car because such and such has one and wins all the time. There are no secrets! Yes, the cars today are sophisticated, but the folks racing them are human and you just have to be better than them. There are no secret, magical parts that they only have access to.There are ways to save money. You don't have to go buy a $20,000 mullins motor to compete if you can work on one yourself. You don't have to pay a chassis builder to fix your stuff if you know how to do it. If you don't know how to do any of the stuff yourself to save money then I question just why in the he!! you are involved in it to begin with.
    Last edited by blncfn57; 04-21-2015 at 06:58 AM.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadegarrett View Post
    ok let's see so you are saying that we are somehow better of with no engine rules and a soft overpriced tire....so it costs more to run the class and somehow this is better?"""I don't agree. What you think people aren't doping tires now?? Lolwouldn't matter cause ump is not doing any tech anyway. this class would be much better off with a cheaper tire that's harder and costs less and some tech right now things are not great and costs are way up, so again exactly how is the better?I have new for you, you can work on your setup 24/7, but right now the top cars in ump have 25k in engine alone,....and a soft tires to hook it up with. Try hooking up same hp on harder tire, and it will not be near as easy. Not only that but a cheaper tire allows more teams to get newer tires. We have been doing it the ump way no for years and the only class that's growing are bmods and sport mods. If your theory is correct then why aren't amods growing in numbers??
    and why is the class not growing? What class is? the 4 cylinder class doesn't have any cars either! Where I'm at the mod class has the highest car count.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadegarrett View Post
    harder tire would make at least the tires costs less, less to buy and last longer so this would be an improvement and harder to hook up would help the class. Yes fast dudes will be fast still. The current program is not working so its easy to say that ideas wont work, but we already know whats not working, its called the current UMP and there over priced tire, to continue to go down this path is not the answer
    The Question is would you support a track that dumps UMP?

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