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 Originally Posted by drtrkr244
I believe most of the negative posts on here are from the ones that spray on their chemicals. That is not the most practical or efficient. A better way is to invest in a rotisserie with a timer and heat strip. Sure, a good one will run 2-3 thousand but it will soon pay for itself, with better results and also treating other racers tires. Simply pour in 12-16oz of your favorite chem., set the timer and thermometer and forget it.
This is just my opinion but the problem lies with track owners and Hoosier. When you cant get the proper compound to match the track conditions (2015 East Bay), or any technical info from Hoosier, a racer has to do what is necessary to maximize the use of their tires. Trust me when I tell you guys this......even the national touring guys are treating their tires!
If this gets out of hand (not that it already hasn't), the day will come when we have to purchase our tires at the track and run those tires that day. Nobody wants that but sanctioning bodies in this sport are particularly lazy when it comes to enforcing the rules. Most are just like government: they think the solution is to create more rules when they aren't even enforcing the ones that they have.
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Originally Posted by Matt49
If this gets out of hand (not that it already hasn't), the day will come when we have to purchase our tires at the track and run those tires that day. Nobody wants that but sanctioning bodies in this sport are particularly lazy when it comes to enforcing the rules. Most are just like government: they think the solution is to create more rules when they aren't even enforcing the ones that they have.
Yep I agree Matt. Whats so frustrating is the D21/55 rule that a lot of tracks have. Those two compounds are totally different but we are forced to run them. I don't understand why tracks and Hoosier force us to use them. The 55 is basically useless down here in the South, but if we are forced to run them, of course, we will heavily treat them. Prep makes more traction and longevity if used properly. That's why I am a fan of it, as it saves the local racer money when forced to run the wrong compound.
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there are 3 kinds of folks who openly deny or dismiss tire treatments:
1. The guy who treats tires regularly and knows the benefits but doesn't want to let the "secret" out.
2. The guy who just doesn't know anything about it and refuses to understand and learn.
3. The guy who tried it, but did it wrong.
If you are treating tires in an environmentally and/or personally harmful way, you won't be hard to catch/tech (you're doing it wrong)
Using chemicals that are already in the tire and considered safe (within reason - don't drink it, wear some gloves and use in a reasonably ventilated area) can save every racer money FIRST; second it MIGHT enhance your performance if everything else is in check.
The guy who brought up Hoosier is spot on but they're in the business of selling tires. If they lap-out twice as soon as they should, that's twice the tires they sell - fair enough. Not bashing Hoosier though, they've done way more good in this sport than not.
If you are racing against treated tires, you better be treating tires. If you don't know what your doing, don't bother with it - you can win races just fine without it but you'll spend more money in other aspects. The tire still has to be correct for the condition.
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Originally Posted by collateralDamage
there are 3 kinds of folks who openly deny or dismiss tire treatments:
1. The guy who treats tires regularly and knows the benefits but doesn't want to let the "secret" out.
2. The guy who just doesn't know anything about it and refuses to understand and learn.
3. The guy who tried it, but did it wrong.
If you are treating tires in an environmentally and/or personally harmful way, you won't be hard to catch/tech (you're doing it wrong)
Using chemicals that are already in the tire and considered safe (within reason - don't drink it, wear some gloves and use in a reasonably ventilated area) can save every racer money FIRST; second it MIGHT enhance your performance if everything else is in check.
The guy who brought up Hoosier is spot on but they're in the business of selling tires. If they lap-out twice as soon as they should, that's twice the tires they sell - fair enough. Not bashing Hoosier though, they've done way more good in this sport than not.
If you are racing against treated tires, you better be treating tires. If you don't know what your doing, don't bother with it - you can win races just fine without it but you'll spend more money in other aspects. The tire still has to be correct for the condition.
Look it's very simple what you are doing and describing above is breaking the rules, PERIOD. Taking over 50 words to explain why your view on breaking the rules of virtually EVERY racing sanctioning body does not ever change that. You kidding yourself that you understand so well all the compounds you are using and their relationship to heat and the inevitable dust created from racing is laughable if it wasn't so dangerous to every competitor and spectator that ventures in to a dirt track. Yea I know how to "treat" tires or more correctly "CHEAT UP" tires too. I can rattle off dozens of techniques, different compounds and chemicals that will make an LM40 an LM5 in minutes. In closing I am fighting for my breath and life with one lung that is mostly dead tissue for "unknown" reasons as a non smoker who has raced and been around dirt racing almost 40 years. Thanks for perpetuating the all is good if you win attitude in a hobby that will at best be a fun way to go broke.
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Simply put you will get busted if they ever check and send it off for a benchmark test. It is impossible to know what chemicals they companies use as they can and do vary batch to batch. Yes your goal isn't always to soften a tire sometimes you want to put more oils in the tire and do things to make it hold bite longer. Sometimes you do want to soften a few points and hope it goes away later in the run so you can take advantage of both worlds. Most all of us in here KNOW how to treat a tire, and you can build your own rotisserie for FARRRRRRRRRRRR cheaper then mentioned. Using stuff you might already have at home. I always go with a formula that has a vulcanizer because that will re arrange the tires molecules and allow your other chemicals to really get into the compound and depending on if i want to soften a lot or a little I'll use either one or another solvent that I have and i Use WD40 to keep the solvent on the tire until it can soak in without it it would evaporate off of it before it can work. I normally use Xylene Toulane and WD 40 in a 1:1:1 ratio I also have Naptha I use to use too before it was all outlawed at our track I don't miss it at all.
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If I was a series promoter, I would come down hard on the people that get caught cheating up the tires. It would look something like this...
1st time offense - banned from all racing for 1 month
2nd time offense - banned from all racing for 1 year
3rd time offense - banned from all racing for life
I don't take kindly to cheaters and have no remorse for anyone that does it and get caught... period. If you can't try to win in a fair way, you have no business being in the sport in my opinion.
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Some places it isn't illegal but it should be, and lord the karting world sure is eaten up with it. I DID use it when it was allowed on asphalt but it takes soooooo much time to do it correctly I think you might be better to spend that time elsewhere regardless if its legal in your area or not. I'm still not convinced there is a safe way to do it. To each their own. If it is illegal and you get caught I think PUSHINTHELIMIT is exactly right. and the stigma alone from cheating these days can run sponsors away in a heartbeat!!!
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I'll fully admit that I have no idea how to treat tires... but I refuse to spend time on something that isn't legal and even worse, bad for my health. I certainly don't have the time to do it even if it was legal in our area. I'm sure I could do a little researching and find out some information, but I would rather spend my time and money on other things like 7uptruckracer mentioned.
I think alot of drivers get caught up in that there's something in their car that they can make themselves faster. While that could be true, I've seen many times that it's the nut behind the wheel that needs to be adjusted and improved on first.
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Originally Posted by collateralDamage
there are 3 kinds of folks who openly deny or dismiss tire treatments:
1. The guy who treats tires regularly and knows the benefits but doesn't want to let the "secret" out.
2. The guy who just doesn't know anything about it and refuses to understand and learn.
3. The guy who tried it, but did it wrong.
If you are treating tires in an environmentally and/or personally harmful way, you won't be hard to catch/tech (you're doing it wrong)
Using chemicals that are already in the tire and considered safe (within reason - don't drink it, wear some gloves and use in a reasonably ventilated area) can save every racer money FIRST; second it MIGHT enhance your performance if everything else is in check.
The guy who brought up Hoosier is spot on but they're in the business of selling tires. If they lap-out twice as soon as they should, that's twice the tires they sell - fair enough. Not bashing Hoosier though, they've done way more good in this sport than not.
If you are racing against treated tires, you better be treating tires. If you don't know what your doing, don't bother with it - you can win races just fine without it but you'll spend more money in other aspects. The tire still has to be correct for the condition.
Perfect post! I find it amazing people are worried about a few ounces of tire treating chemicals, but are not concerned with breathing the fumes of approximately 1,000 gals of race/pump gas that's put in the track and in the air each and every race night!
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Originally Posted by drtrkr244
Perfect post! I find it amazing people are worried about a few ounces of tire treating chemicals, but are not concerned with breathing the fumes of approximately 1,000 gals of race/pump gas that's put in the track and in the air each and every race night!
Those fumes are dumped in the open air. You leave the track with rubber on your face!
The biggest issue is it is out and out cheating. A form of cheating that people are sensitive about. A form of cheating where 5 guys do it and the lab only catches 1. It isn't simply pulling out a tape measure. I have no respect for cheats.
Modern Day Wedge Racing
Florence -2
Atomic - 1
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Originally Posted by drtrkr244
Perfect post! I find it amazing people are worried about a few ounces of tire treating chemicals, but are not concerned with breathing the fumes of approximately 1,000 gals of race/pump gas that's put in the track and in the air each and every race night!
With a comparison like that a swig of Drano is just what you need .....it's only a half ounce!
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Sometimes you have the save the racers from themselves.
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Originally Posted by MasterSbilt_Racer
Those fumes are dumped in the open air. You leave the track with rubber on your face!
The biggest issue is it is out and out cheating. A form of cheating that people are sensitive about. A form of cheating where 5 guys do it and the lab only catches 1. It isn't simply pulling out a tape measure. I have no respect for cheats.
MBRacer, do you really think none of the carcinogens from the fumes are mixed in the clay? A simple soil analysis could find out for us all, as that would be some interesting data. I know I leave a racetrack with far more clay on me and my clothes than I do rubber.
As far as calling it cheating, we'll have to agree to disagree. As long as you are only putting back what naturally leaches out, I'm ok with it. And as long as tracks, sanctioning bodies, and tire mfgr's continually force us to use the wrong compounds, I'm definitely ok with it. Esp since when done properly, it saves the racer money!
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I guess you don't understand how a benchmark test works.....EPA is cracking down HARD on tracks thats why the track surfaces don't act how they use to they really have to watch what chemicals they put into their water. There are guys spending some money to use environmentally approved water treatments on their surfaces. I've never had a tire treatment save me money, not once. By the time you add in the chemicals, and materials, and time spent or equipment to do it it doesn't save a dime. If you are keeping tires until the oils leach out your keeping them FARRRRRR to long
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Originally Posted by drtrkr244
MBRacer, do you really think none of the carcinogens from the fumes are mixed in the clay? A simple soil analysis could find out for us all, as that would be some interesting data. I know I leave a racetrack with far more clay on me and my clothes than I do rubber.
As far as calling it cheating, we'll have to agree to disagree. As long as you are only putting back what naturally leaches out, I'm ok with it. And as long as tracks, sanctioning bodies, and tire mfgr's continually force us to use the wrong compounds, I'm definitely ok with it. Esp since when done properly, it saves the racer money!
I use tires longer than almost anyone. Keep them clean and they are pretty good until worn out, unless you are forced to run a 55 or LM 40. It is very common for us to put 200 laps on a tire. Chemicals won't save me a dime.
And I don't have to feel like a cheat. You treat your tires, you are a cheater. In my book, even worse than the guy running a 9" spoiler.
Last edited by MasterSbilt_Racer; 04-16-2015 at 02:23 PM.
Modern Day Wedge Racing
Florence -2
Atomic - 1
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Down south you have to prep tires because tracks want stop it & everybody does it ! they call it liquid speed .
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Originally Posted by old17ford
Down south you have to prep tires because tracks want stop it & everybody does it ! they call it liquid speed .
Maybe that's the main issue here, oldford17. Since we have a fair amount of sand in our tracks, moreso than Northern tracks. The tracks cant stop it because the sniffers and the lab tests cant catch it. My prep guy has been tested hundreds of times by sniffers and labs and has NEVER been found illegal. As far as economics, what racer wouldn't spend $40/week to win $100plus. Its a no-brainer for me or the ones that use it and win regularly! Trust me on this.....USE THE RIGHT PREP AND YOU WILL GET BETTER RESULTS AND NOT GET FOUND ILLEGAL!
PS...I don't make prep or sell it, but I know who does!
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I run down south I don't have to use it. and there isn't a lot of sand in the southern clay. Unless i go to some tracks in NC I rarely have put anything all to hard on at all there are a few tires chewers CLR comes to mind and Winchester but Ive been in some big namers who win and win ALOT and i've never seen them soak they just grind groove sipe and wrap
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Most people do it. A very popular blend comes from lttl . The cost I think outweighs the means it will not make a tenth place car a winner. But if you use it properly you can make your tires more evenly consistent between tire changes. And they will fire sooner.
Yes you can pass a tire test with it regardless of what peopl tell you. We got 4 to pass the sniffer at a major ump event. This was a known test not just a one time deal that was tried to pull the wool over the tech person.
Yes you can still beat guys that are using prep if you put in the time and effort to learn how to make your car work.
No I don't endorse it and if your looking for speed from it your already behind the game.
But I do know it works best on harder compounds and if you are racing somewhere they don't tech tires a good blend is 1 gal of xylene mixed with 1 gal of toluene and a quart of dex 6 trans fluid. Use about 1 oz per inch of tread width and rotate the tire for 24 hrs. You can also apply it to the outside a day or 2 before and even use it between heats to get the tires going.
Your tire will not like this for very long so be prepared to get new ones. Or call Jim moon he will sell yA some inside prep that a number of top guys have been popped for.
7 ounces not 8 lol
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Originally Posted by Brian Gray
Most people do it. A very popular blend comes from lttl . The cost I think outweighs the means it will not make a tenth place car a winner. But if you use it properly you can make your tires more evenly consistent between tire changes. And they will fire sooner.
Yes you can pass a tire test with it regardless of what peopl tell you. We got 4 to pass the sniffer at a major ump event. This was a known test not just a one time deal that was tried to pull the wool over the tech person.
Yes you can still beat guys that are using prep if you put in the time and effort to learn how to make your car work.
No I don't endorse it and if your looking for speed from it your already behind the game.
But I do know it works best on harder compounds and if you are racing somewhere they don't tech tires a good blend is 1 gal of xylene mixed with 1 gal of toluene and a quart of dex 6 trans fluid. Use about 1 oz per inch of tread width and rotate the tire for 24 hrs. You can also apply it to the outside a day or 2 before and even use it between heats to get the tires going.
Your tire will not like this for very long so be prepared to get new ones. Or call Jim moon he will sell yA some inside prep that a number of top guys have been popped for.
7 ounces not 8 lol
LOL! Mr Moon and his prep have won a ton of races over the years!
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