Mod - Car Counts - Central Illinois

[indyboywilliam]

yes i understand that part and that's been going on since racing started. Guys move up but, you need guys from the lower classes to move to the mod class and yes there are a few but, not as many as is needed. I guess we will have to sit back and see where we stand in a couple of years if no one wants to make some changes. Like i said i'm not going to give all the blame to ump but, they take some responsibility in this. They can't be happy to see what use to be 25 to 30 mods down to 15 to 18 mods and in some cases 10 to 12.

very well said..........something needs to change.......... And if ump dont make it happen track owners need to get together and take matters into there own hands and do it

[kidrock]

very well said..........something needs to change.......... And if ump dont make it happen track owners need to get together and take matters into there own hands and do it

Where's the like button!!!!

[Pops15]

I've been around racing 52 years. As I see it the sport has two major problems.

1. Not enough fans in the stands.
2. Not enough cars in the pits.

It will be impossible to fix the attendance problem without fixing the car count problem.
Racing costs too much. SLM cost too much, mods cost too much, SS cost too much. In all the time I've been around racing I haven't heard a single racer say they quit because it didn't cost enough.

If weekly racing is going to survive, the cost to compete has to be less. Anyone that thinks otherwise is living in a dream world.

Can UMP fix the car count problem? Of course they could.....but they won't. Promoters know that. Some have talked publicly about leaving UMP, and others have privately. It's only a matter of time until a few leave UMP. Once they do, others will join them. Nearly all of the IL promoters talk to each other. Some of them even meet during the off season. It's not just a matter of survival for the modified class, it's a matter of survival for the tracks. In my opinion it's not a matter of IF the tracks leave, but a matter of WHEN they leave UMP.

UMP started with 14 tracks in 1984. It was tough to find more than three tracks with the same LM rules back then. When the promoters that are dissatisfied with UMP leave, and they will leave UMP, they'll have an advantage that UMP didn't have in 84. They've already got uniform rules for the mods. They'll just need to make a few changes. Tires for sure. They could (and likely would) still be Hoosiers. The restrictor plate idea is interesting. A shock rule would benefit the class but will likely run into opposition from some of the racers.

[sirleafalot]

very well said..........something needs to change.......... And if ump dont make it happen track owners need to get together and take matters into there own hands and do it

agree, track owners are in this as well and own part of the concern. they need to step and tell ump and others of the issue certainly on tires where they have options.

[kidrock]

I've been around racing 52 years. As I see it the sport has two major problems.

1. Not enough fans in the stands.
2. Not enough cars in the pits.

It will be impossible to fix the attendance problem without fixing the car count problem.
Racing costs too much. SLM cost too much, mods cost too much, SS cost too much. In all the time I've been around racing I haven't heard a single racer say they quit because it didn't cost enough.

If weekly racing is going to survive, the cost to compete has to be less. Anyone that thinks otherwise is living in a dream world.

Can UMP fix the car count problem? Of course they could.....but they won't. Promoters know that. Some have talked publicly about leaving UMP, and others have privately. It's only a matter of time until a few leave UMP. Once they do, others will join them. Nearly all of the IL promoters talk to each other. Some of them even meet during the off season. It's not just a matter of survival for the modified class, it's a matter of survival for the tracks. In my opinion it's not a matter of IF the tracks leave, but a matter of WHEN they leave UMP.

UMP started with 14 tracks in 1984. It was tough to find more than three tracks with the same LM rules back then. When the promoters that are dissatisfied with UMP leave, and they will leave UMP, they'll have an advantage that UMP didn't have in 84. They've already got uniform rules for the mods. They'll just need to make a few changes. Tires for sure. They could (and likely would) still be Hoosiers. The restrictor plate idea is interesting. A shock rule would benefit the class but will likely run into opposition from some of the racers.

Yes there have been a few that have talked about leaving UMP and I believe you might see it next year. And yes your right for the most part the rules are in place and just a little tweaking of the rules is all that's needed.
Very well said Pops.

[DirtDirtCrazy]

So here is the deal; I started this thread to basically discuss the welfare of Central Illinois Dirt Tracks and particularly the Modified Division. Many have replied to the thread and I thank you all for that.

Based on the responses, a good deal of what it will take to deal with the Car Count issue will require a strong cooperation between UMP, Track Promoters, and of course MODIFIED DRIVERS and their teams. I am hopeful that these three parties can work closely in the near future to make A-Mod Racing healthy again.

But there is a fourth element that cannot be ignored. FANS!!!! Give them a good racing product and they will come!

[hygty]

that is the main factor without fans the tracks will have a hard time surviving . doesn't help when you NASCAR on sat night or friday night

[kidrock]

that is the main factor without fans the tracks will have a hard time surviving . doesn't help when you NASCAR on sat night or friday night

According to guys on here NASCAR is sucks and nobody watches it anymore do, no way can a NASCAR race hurt dirt track attendance.

[hygty]

well some fans like it but they probably like getting in the head with a brick lol

[wadegarrett]

According to guys on here NASCAR is sucks and nobody watches it anymore do, no way can a NASCAR race hurt dirt track attendance.

all the excuses dont change the fact that ump/hoosier are charging 35 bucks a tire more than any other sanction. This is not helping the class. the a40s mess just shows that Hoosier and UMP did not do enough testing and were hoping the racers would live with it, tried to blame it on siping etc. not to mention this nonsense of only allowing Ds at some tracks. usra and imca have ONE tire.

[kidrock]

all the excuses dont change the fact that ump/hoosier are charging 35 bucks a tire more than any other sanction. This is not helping the class. the a40s mess just shows that Hoosier and UMP did not do enough testing and were hoping the racers would live with it, tried to blame it on siping etc. not to mention this nonsense of only allowing Ds at some tracks. usra and imca have ONE tire.

i agree with you.

[hygty]

all the excuses dont change the fact that ump/hoosier are charging 35 bucks a tire more than any other sanction. This is not helping the class. the a40s mess just shows that Hoosier and UMP did not do enough testing and were hoping the racers would live with it, tried to blame it on siping etc. not to mention this nonsense of only allowing Ds at some tracks. usra and imca have ONE tire.

and your point is a team can strap new ones on all day long some tracks say the tire you start the night with is the tire you finish with

[modracr41]

and your point is a team can strap new ones on all day long some tracks say the tire you start the night with is the tire you finish with

That's not feasible for modified racing. You will always have the "have's" and the "have-not's" but to level the playing field to the point that "have-not's" aren't out-classed is the goal. New tires will outrun used tires 95% of the time, but you still have to drive the car, know how to set up the car, and how to take care of the tires so they're there at the end of the feature. Those things will win races when $$ won't. UMP changes rules without input from drivers, and more importantly doing some research and looking at what will make a difference. Taking the spoilers off will help on a long, momentum type track, but on a small 1/4 mile bullring track it won't make a difference. They need to look at restricting the high $$, high HP engines and a hard tire with little tread does help with this. Tech is also a huge part of this and for it to be successful it has to be done and enforced. Ask Tom Brady about rules enforcement. UMP would have dropped the minimum air pressure in the rules for all of the balls so what he did wasn't illegal any longer.

[rustymod]

That's not feasible for modified racing. You will always have the "have's" and the "have-not's" but to level the playing field to the point that "have-not's" aren't out-classed is the goal. New tires will outrun used tires 95% of the time, but you still have to drive the car, know how to set up the car, and how to take care of the tires so they're there at the end of the feature. Those things will win races when $$ won't. UMP changes rules without input from drivers, and more importantly doing some research and looking at what will make a difference. Taking the spoilers off will help on a long, momentum type track, but on a small 1/4 mile bullring track it won't make a difference. They need to look at restricting the high $$, high HP engines and a hard tire with little tread does help with this. Tech is also a huge part of this and for it to be successful it has to be done and enforced. Ask Tom Brady about rules enforcement. UMP would have dropped the minimum air pressure in the rules for all of the balls so what he did wasn't illegal any longer.

well said ump has shown this in the past look at the engine rules as soon as Kenny Wallace decides he wants to run a Toyota suddenly the ump engine rules say "other pushrod engine will be considered" in other words since our boy Kenny runs a toyota its now allowed.
I fully expect the ump made the a40s to wear sooner so them and hoosier could make more money now that many tracks do not allow the d. they got caught with the hand in the cookie jar. sure they fixed it after the fact, but its like putting the genie back in the bottle. ump needs to go and they need to take there tires with them. even going to amra would be an upgrade at this point, promoters need to wake up.

[napoleondynamite]

that is the main factor without fans the tracks will have a hard time surviving . doesn't help when you NASCAR on sat night or friday night

You sound a lot like LITE-INN.............just an observation.

[MM90]

What are your UMP tires going for? We pay around $115 for our IMCA tires.

[sirleafalot]

What are your UMP tires going for? We pay around $115 for our IMCA tires.

about 140 each. and they dont last as long as the IMCA or USMTS tires

[DirtDirtCrazy]

I'm not convinced that comparing a tire designed for an IMCA Mod versus a UMP Mod is a fair analysis. From what I can tell an IMCA Mod tops out around 400 hp whereas most UMP Mods are pumping out 600+ hp. When put to the ground I would expect tire wear to be different in these scenarios.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending or criticizing Hoosier. All I can tell you is that the last UMP Mod Race I watched was a few weeks back at Charleston Speedway; at least 5 cars logged 13.5 second laps during qualifying on the 3/8 mile track. What was remarkable was the amount of speed carried through the turns. No matter how you cut it, that kind of speed is going to wear on any tire.

[modracr41]

I'm not convinced that comparing a tire designed for an IMCA Mod versus a UMP Mod is a fair analysis. From what I can tell an IMCA Mod tops out around 400 hp whereas most UMP Mods are pumping out 600+ hp. When put to the ground I would expect tire wear to be different in these scenarios.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending or criticizing Hoosier. All I can tell you is that the last UMP Mod Race I watched was a few weeks back at Charleston Speedway; at least 5 cars logged 13.5 second laps during qualifying on the 3/8 mile track. What was remarkable was the amount of speed carried through the turns. No matter how you cut it, that kind of speed is going to wear on any tire.

You're a bit off. IMCA cars aren't down that much power to UMP cars, and USMTS cars are on par with them. BOTH run the G60 either KK704 AR, or Hoosier. Sitting back and trying to defend the 40 series tire by saying that it's designed to hook up the power is where you're thinking is flawed. The hard tire with little tread will minimize just how much power the car can put to the ground, thereby leveling the playing field and negating those 700-800hp UMP former 'cup engines everyone in UMP thinks they must have. An IMCA A-modified running on the same track will run maybe a full second slower than the UMP cars if that. From the grandstands, you can't tell the difference.

[$UMP$]

That's not feasible for modified racing. You will always have the "have's" and the "have-not's" but to level the playing field to the point that "have-not's" aren't out-classed is the goal. New tires will outrun used tires 95% of the time, but you still have to drive the car, know how to set up the car, and how to take care of the tires so they're there at the end of the feature. Those things will win races when $$ won't. UMP changes rules without input from drivers, and more importantly doing some research and looking at what will make a difference. Taking the spoilers off will help on a long, momentum type track, but on a small 1/4 mile bullring track it won't make a difference. They need to look at restricting the high $$, high HP engines and a hard tire with little tread does help with this. Tech is also a huge part of this and for it to be successful it has to be done and enforced. Ask Tom Brady about rules enforcement. UMP would have dropped the minimum air pressure in the rules for all of the balls so what he did wasn't illegal any longer.

Yawn!!!!!!!!!!