CT 525 Late models. Where do they belong?

[Skinny64]

I wanted to get the forums opinion on this. Where do you guys think the 525 Late models belong? My local track thinks they belong with our steel head guys. The 525's are stinking up the show pretty good week after week. The steel head cars can run 362ci max and 23 degree only. Weight penalty for roller cam, dry sump, and pop up pistons. I'm seeing these 525 ' s out run open motors at some tracks and I'm sure alot has to do with over powering the track but I still think the 525 cars belong in a super class with some weight breaks and possibly a big spoiler. What do you think?

[j1s]

Here is how it should work:
Crate vs. Crate
Spec vs. Spec
525 vs. 525
Super vs. Super
Any engine (no spoiler breaks or weight breaks) with late model chassis and body vs. Super

Next question you should ask is; "when they run street stocks against Super Late models how can we hadicapp the field"?

The have classes for a reason. The reason is so drivers/teams can find a class that fits there budget and race.

[W2Racing09]

Here is how it should work:
Crate vs. Crate
Spec vs. Spec
525 vs. 525
Super vs. Super
Any engine (no spoiler breaks or weight breaks) with late model chassis and body vs. Super

Next question you should ask is; "when they run street stocks against Super Late models how can we hadicapp the field"?

The have classes for a reason. The reason is so drivers/teams can find a class that fits there budget and race.

I disagree, I think adapting to the times is the key to allowing dirt racing to survive.

The CT525 is a viable option for the SLM division, just as the 604 Crate is a viable option in the LLM/Steel Block division. Neither will be totally up to speed without some breaks. Nobody is saying they should add 200lbs to the SLM cars, just that the CT525 cars should get to weigh less. The average fan will not know the difference between the engines, but they will notice the extra cars it could potentially produce.

Mel Minnick runs at Roaring Knob with a CT525. He gets a 100 lb weight break (2150 instead of 2250) along with additional spoiler height and side spoiler, optional spillboard on the nose and 10" max setback.

He finished second his first time out this year and had a win last year. The fans do not suffer as a result of this rule, and if more tracks embraced it more drivers would go this route and more people would make the decision to run SLM over LLM and Crate which would be good for the division.

I've attached a picture of his car so that you can see it does not look like the batmobile as everyone says cars do when they get the big spoiler.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Aluminium Block]

Here is how it should work: Crate vs. Crate Spec vs. Spec 525 vs. 525 Super vs. Super Any engine (no spoiler breaks or weight breaks) with late model chassis and body vs. Super Next question you should ask is; "when they run street stocks against Super Late models how can we hadicapp the field"? The have classes for a reason. The reason is so drivers/teams can find a class that fits there budget and race.

We do not need 4 classes of late models! These cars can be mixed together with spoilers and weights. That has been proven. As for the original subject, the 525 in a limited late class would put an aluminum block motor in that class. Not sure if it belongs there. Definitely works with the Supers.

[W2Racing09]

We do not need 4 classes of late models! These cars can be mixed together with spoilers and weights. That has been proven. As for the original subject, the 525 in a limited late class would put an aluminum block motor in that class. Not sure if it belongs there. Definitely works with the Supers.

Agreed, to me there is not reason to have more than two classes.

604/602 Crate
SLM (With CT525 Option)

I can't figure out why anyone bothers running Steel Blocks. The motors cost a lot (more than crates) and the pay is usually less. Those with a Steel Block car could just as easily afford a CT525 to run in the SLM class (and get more to finish last in SLM than you would to finish 5th in the Steel Block class, not that they would finish last).

Thanks,
Jeff.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I disagree, I think adapting to the times is the key to allowing dirt racing to survive.

The CT525 is a viable option for the SLM division, just as the 604 Crate is a viable option in the LLM/Steel Block division. Neither will be totally up to speed without some breaks. Nobody is saying they should add 200lbs to the SLM cars, just that the CT525 cars should get to weigh less. The average fan will not know the difference between the engines, but they will notice the extra cars it could potentially produce.

Mel Minnick runs at Roaring Knob with a CT525. He gets a 100 lb weight break (2150 instead of 2250) along with additional spoiler height and side spoiler, optional spillboard on the nose and 10" max setback.

He finished second his first time out this year and had a win last year. The fans do not suffer as a result of this rule, and if more tracks embraced it more drivers would go this route and more people would make the decision to run SLM over LLM and Crate which would be good for the division.

I've attached a picture of his car so that you can see it does not look like the batmobile as everyone says cars do when they get the big spoiler.

Thanks,
Jeff.

That is way too much help for an all aluminum engine that makes respectable power, at most tracks.

[Bubstr]

Here is how it should work:
Crate vs. Crate
Spec vs. Spec
525 vs. 525
Super vs. Super
Any engine (no spoiler breaks or weight breaks) with late model chassis and body vs. Super

Next question you should ask is; "when they run street stocks against Super Late models how can we hadicapp the field"?

The have classes for a reason. The reason is so drivers/teams can find a class that fits there budget and race.

X 2 There is no adequate way to handicap different rules packages. The promoters need to decide what classes they wish to run and maybe collaborate with surrounding tracks so they have enough of each class to put on a decent show. Small field of cars for a class, is no good for the fan, racer or track. Just too many classes now. It waters down the fields and limits where the racers can run in some cases. We need fewer classes and standardized rules.

[W2Racing09]

That is way too much help for an all aluminum engine that makes respectable power, at most tracks.

I disagree, Mel Minnick jr. is an experienced racer who has been very competitive. He has not dominated since going the CT525 route. As I said he has a 2nd place finish this season, and to my knowledge one win last season and mostly top fives otherwise. There are other drivers all over the country running this motor with the SLM division and I've yet to hear of anyone rattling off 10 wins in a row or anything.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Clayton_Wetter]

And of course you need to make the track as dryslick as possible, to slow the SLM's down and create false equality!!

[W2Racing09]

And of course you need to make the track as dryslick as possible, to slow the SLM's down and create false equality!!

I think you can prepare the track as is currently. Tracks are different every week. Some times it may produce an advantage for the Crate and other days it may produce an advantage for the Open Motor. That creates parity, and that is one thing Late Model racing is sorely lacking in most places.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[fastford]

Here is how it should work:
Crate vs. Crate
Spec vs. Spec
525 vs. 525
Super vs. Super
Any engine (no spoiler breaks or weight breaks) with late model chassis and body vs. Super

Next question you should ask is; "when they run street stocks against Super Late models how can we hadicapp the field"?

The have classes for a reason. The reason is so drivers/teams can find a class that fits there budget and race.

this is how I feel as well, but here is a thought, lets have one crate class, let the 525s weigh 2600lbs and 8in spoiler, then let the 604s weigh 2400lbs and a 10in spoiler and the 602s weigh2200lbs and a 12in spoiler. so there you have it, a super class where you run what you brung and no special breaks, then you have the crate class where all the crates are treated fairly with breaks and so forth and a limited class for people like me that still want to build there own stuff, wouldn't this make everyone happy? how ever if you did this and a 602 got lucky and won a race, I would bet the 525s would start crying about to much of a advantage given to the 602s...

[GRT32]

2600 pds is not only crazy it is dangerous. You never hear the open motors cry when the track is hammerdown but let it get slick enough for a small motor to win and the world has came to an end. For slm to survive the promotors better give enough to the 525 motors to make them very competitive.

[25drtrkr]

Down here in the deep South, the 525's run with the steel block llm's. Our steel blocks are allowed to run the Brodix spec alum head. The 525's have to add 50lbs in front of bellhousing. From what I've seen, their equal as far as performance, but the steel blocks cost TWICE as much.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I disagree, Mel Minnick jr. is an experienced racer who has been very competitive. He has not dominated since going the CT525 route. As I said he has a 2nd place finish this season, and to my knowledge one win last season and mostly top fives otherwise. There are other drivers all over the country running this motor with the SLM division and I've yet to hear of anyone rattling off 10 wins in a row or anything.

Thanks,
Jeff.

I have watched 525s win with no help or maybe weight help. All that aero help is ridiculous.

[Okfine]

I disagree, I think adapting to the times is the key to allowing dirt racing to survive.

The CT525 is a viable option for the SLM division, just as the 604 Crate is a viable option in the LLM/Steel Block division. Neither will be totally up to speed without some breaks. Nobody is saying they should add 200lbs to the SLM cars, just that the CT525 cars should get to weigh less. The average fan will not know the difference between the engines, but they will notice the extra cars it could potentially produce.

Mel Minnick runs at Roaring Knob with a CT525. He gets a 100 lb weight break (2150 instead of 2250) along with additional spoiler height and side spoiler, optional spillboard on the nose and 10" max setback.

He finished second his first time out this year and had a win last year. The fans do not suffer as a result of this rule, and if more tracks embraced it more drivers would go this route and more people would make the decision to run SLM over LLM and Crate which would be good for the division.

I've attached a picture of his car so that you can see it does not look like the batmobile as everyone says cars do when they get the big spoiler.

Thanks,
Jeff.

I agree with this post...........did your friend ever run an open motor, and if so, how did he do vs. the slm guys , was he a factor with equal power plant?

The reason I'm asking, is that some guys just can't get a handle on the open motor, but do very well with the crate or 525 option.

And I have to ask, is that a picture josh Richards on his wall???? Couldn't tell because it was a little blurry.

[fastford]

2600 pds is not only crazy it is dangerous. You never hear the open motors cry when the track is hammerdown but let it get slick enough for a small motor to win and the world has came to an end. For slm to survive the promotors better give enough to the 525 motors to make them very competitive.

yea , lets all kiss gms azz and help them sell engines, I hear there about broke again any way, and by the way east Alabama has had a limited class with 2600 min for years, I guess they like living dangerously , but you missed my point , let the crates race crates, if the supers and limited fall to the wayside, then so be it but I would bet the crates go first..

[Skinny64]

I also forgot to mention that once the 525 was entered into the steel head class they started qualifying to set the field for the feature. Now they are up front before the feature even starts. You guys have some good input on this. I just don't understand some of the post that say you could easily afford a 525 if you run steel head now? If a guy has been loyal to his track year after year running steel head how is it that you think they can just pull out a $10,000 motor and sit it on the ground to go buy a $9,000 525 to please the track and be competitive? I just think it's a stupid idea.

[Drop Shock]

Zack Dohm's wearing most of the super late guys in the Ohio Valley out with his. Even on a hammer down track if the straightaways are short enough. Put them in there own class? That would be good way to kill them off. The appeal of these motors is that there are no freshen up costs, and they are an advantage when the track slows down. Really don't know why more people aren't getting these motors.

[Drop Shock]

yea , lets all kiss gms azz and help them sell engines, I hear there about broke again any way, and by the way east Alabama has had a limited class with 2600 min for years, I guess they like living dangerously , but you missed my point , let the crates race crates, if the supers and limited fall to the wayside, then so be it but I would bet the crates go first..

What is the harm in letting a 604 run with a limited and a 525 run with an open motor? Do you scold people who save money at the grocery store too?

[Skinny64]

Correct Drop Shock.... but key word in your post was Super late. Not Steel Head.... 525 belongs in a Super class. imo....