I spoke again to the owners Dad tonite and the PO's GF. She sure is excited about the possibility of someone buying the car.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to take a chance on this deal. First it's priced right… and he's open to offers. Second it would be cheaper for me to go through this car then it will be to finish the super stock I now have in my shop. I can run this car 45 miles from home on Saturday nights and there are two other tracks within 90 miles running Friday and Sunday nights. My closest track running supers is 85 miles and the next closest is 120 miles. The pay is better in the LM's too but you know how far that $$$ goes!
I have an iron headed motor that would fit the rules, too. Big HP? No… but it should be dependable.
Just don't expect to make it drive like a modern late model. And I would move the rr frame rail as Billet referred to. You can crudely cut it alongside the tire, slide it in 2 inches, and box in the hole you made.
Although much more rare, the narrow car was vastly superior to the wide.
Well I've never driven a 'modern' LM so I won't be missing anything.
I'm not a fan of the 4 bar deal but I'll have to study how these things really work. I'll ask around to see if I can get some help from some of the guys at the track. I have a friend who built some great cars back in the 80's-90's… maybe he can give me some advice. I'd sooner have leaf springs myself…
Here's my last LM… ex-USAC car built in '61. Genuine Holman-Moody 427 side oiler.
As long as you don't expect it to drive like a Cadillac, and win regularly, you'll be fine. But I believe, like others have posted, you need to make sure the rr trailing arms don't hit the frame (you may can space the trailing arm away from the frame) and you can get more angle in the j-bar (it looks like you can just drill more holes and reinforce them with tubing).
As long as you don't expect it to drive like a Cadillac, and win regularly, you'll be fine. But I believe, like others have posted, you need to make sure the rr trailing arms don't hit the frame (you may can space the trailing arm away from the frame) and you can get more angle in the j-bar (it looks like you can just drill more holes and reinforce them with tubing).
Actually, the problem isn't the bars hitting the frame that I recall but there were some older cars when using newer type set ups that the birdcage could get into the RR frame rail. The real problem is the RR tire will rub the outside of the RR frame rail and pop the tire, if you get some j-bar rake into. You will see black marks on the frame rail, the only way to fix it is to move the framerail over at least 2".
Honestly, I would pass even if it was really cheap. What are you getting there and how much of it isn't going to take a fair amount of money to get it usable? You're guessing the rack and the rear end aren't going to need a ton of work, then what about the brakes? They look to have been sitting quite a while, all of that could need gone thru and need new seals and pistons in the calipers. God now's if the master cylinders are even any good after sitting.
Then the fuel cell: That cell was new in around 95 or so and many had real issues with them, Bill Frye had to turn his side ways in the car to get the car back to where it was before the cell. you can look at old pictures around 95 to 97 and see his and Verdin's cars where both that way.
So how much is really left to use? I honestly wouldn't pay much at all for it, unless you could inspect a bunch of the parts to see if they are even usable without spending cash on them. Too many other cars out there just as cheap, it's a buyer's market.
Krooser, where in country is this if its in a cold area id spend some time looking over cage bars and frame rail, water tends to get in rivet holes in cage bars and main frame rails then freezes and splits or swells the bars, frame may not be safe anymore, you may be buying a rear, rack and some odd other parts.
I'm of the same opinion. Many, many moons ago I bought a complete Sportsman type car (stub chassis) thinking I could salvage the rearend and brakes, suspension, etc. I think I paid $500. In the end I only used the body, which I could've bought brand new for less (this was over 20 years ago). I regretted not only the money wasted but the time as well.
Actually, the problem isn't the bars hitting the frame that I recall but there were some older cars when using newer type set ups that the birdcage could get into the RR frame rail. The real problem is the RR tire will rub the outside of the RR frame rail and pop the tire, if you get some j-bar rake into. You will see black marks on the frame rail, the only way to fix it is to move the framerail over at least 2".
Honestly, I would pass even if it was really cheap. What are you getting there and how much of it isn't going to take a fair amount of money to get it usable? You're guessing the rack and the rear end aren't going to need a ton of work, then what about the brakes? They look to have been sitting quite a while, all of that could need gone thru and need new seals and pistons in the calipers. God now's if the master cylinders are even any good after sitting.
Then the fuel cell: That cell was new in around 95 or so and many had real issues with them, Bill Frye had to turn his side ways in the car to get the car back to where it was before the cell. you can look at old pictures around 95 to 97 and see his and Verdin's cars where both that way.
So how much is really left to use? I honestly wouldn't pay much at all for it, unless you could inspect a bunch of the parts to see if they are even usable without spending cash on them. Too many other cars out there just as cheap, it's a buyer's market.
Just my opinion
Yep, I agree bbc! We haven't even discussed any safety factors. The tubing should be sonic tested but who has one of those lying around.Im from a fairly big town so there is one available,for a price of course. Also, some of the welds look questionable too.
But, Krooser probly just wants to race and theres nothing wrong with that. If hes furnishing the labor it shouldn't cost a whole lot to get it going. If it was mine, I would strip it, fix what needed to be fixed and re-powdercoat it. But it will never compete equally with the newer chassis'.
I made a deal for the car for under $1K. I have to find a few tires to get it rolling again. I'll pick it up in a couple weeks after I get the trailer my son is letting me use.
I have a few health issues so it's now or never for me. Low buck or no buck I'm going to give it hell. My wife thinks I'm nuts but don't they all. I have a couple low buck sponsors lined up. I'll get some help with fuel and tires plus my engine guy is willing to do some machine work for me at a discount to help out.
I've never enjoyed running the 1/2 miles but I'll be back on 'em with this car. Maybe getting out of my comfort zone will be a good thing. I'll be looking for someone who's willing to school me on 4 bars… I'm going to the track Saturday night to see if I can find some help. It's never too early to learn.
I want to thank all you guys for helping me decipher what I have here. I'll get more info as I plod along. Regarding safety… it's been under cover most of the time since it's last race. The guy who owns it now said he had it in a shed until this spring when he rolled it out to sell. The last guy who raced it last had it in his shop for several years as he kept it as his spare. I'll give it a good inspection when I get it on my frame table.
As stated above, one major problem with older cars is a problem that cannot be seen. If that car was built in the mid to later 90's, and was built out of say .083 tubing,(likely electro weld) how thick do you think it is now? Tubing sweats, and it will rust from the inside. Keith Masters stated several years ago that he has seen tubing degradation of .xxx thousands a year (do not remember the exact number). So if this car was built in say 95, that is 20 years of internal rusting, and thinning of the walls of all the tubing in the car.
I would not ever race that car in competition. Restore it maybe, if it had good history. Too dangerous.
JMO
I think there should be lifeguards in the genepool.
Keith masters also says his cars are the best the first night you run them and they drop quickly after that lol if Keith was right about losing x number of thousandths per year this car wouldn't even exist and clearly it does. I see no problem with this guy taking this car to live his dream while he can. With that being said I wouldn't have given the guy more than like 300 dollars for it
Bought a car just like that sight unseen afew years ago.A combo car is a z-link-4 bar to me,not a leaf -4bar.I was worried about the car rusting from the inside.We cut the back half off and was surprised how good the pipe looked.Narrowed the tail up and made it a combo car.Turned out to be a good car on little bull rings.It didn't have any chassis numbers,but I was able to contact the original own that picked it up from mastersbilt .
I plan on going thru everything to make sure all is right. I'll pull every bearing, reseal or rebuild the rack, QC, hubs, etc. But it won't be blown apart for powdercoat. One of my sponsors sells paint and they custom match colors in rattle cans. The right side decking will be replaced… I have a brake in my shop so I'll build the body at home.
Winter racers auctions may net some later/lighter brake parts. I'll need some more wheels, another radiator and some spare parts. The old shocks/springs that are on the car are likely obsolete so they will be replaced with modern stuff. Not $1000 shocks that's for sure. I have a good inventory of QA1 and Bilstein's for my super… too bad they won't work.
I'll likely run this on Saturday nights @ Shawano Speedway. Always a good field of cars every week. Beaver Dam runs Sundays and they are only drawing a handful of late's since they reopened this year. Both tracks have similar rules… 362" iron or aluminum heads. A 370" open motor deal with a restrictor plate. Or IMCA mod engine. Lots of choices. Hard tires.
I figure last place in the main pays between $100 and $140 depending on the track. First is $750.00 IIRC. It makes more sense to run for $140 with a $3000 car than to race for $750 with a $40,000 car. Am I wrong here? See where I'm going with this?
I plan on having fun, racing hard in the heats and staying out of the way in the main. You're all invited. I could use the help.
Well I went to the track tonite. One of the LM guys dragged four used Hoosiers W30's along for me so I can get some rubber on the old girl that hold's air.
I spent about three hours asking questions and generally being a big PITA. But I learned a bunch. I now know the concern about the right frame rail is valid even if I don't set up the car exactly the way most modern cars are run. The driver who brought the tires runs an '08 Rocket so I took a lot of mental notes. I talked chassis with him and engines with his Dad who builds 'em for the team. Despite the rather liberal rules allowing several different combos most guys are running Brodix spec heads, 360 ci and around 650 HP. A couple open engines with restrictor plates… no crates or IMCA engines in sight AFAIK.
They broke a piston a few weeks ago in the 'good' engine so they put in their spare bullet and they were down 50 HP. Tough nite… handled good in the heat but no forward drive in the main. RR tire got a hole in the heat. New RR didn't seem to help.
Still doing homework. Looks like the cutting wheel and plasma torch will get a workout this fall.
I will say that these cars fly when you are watching from the pit wall… certainly more exciting than in the grandstand.
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Originally Posted by HuckleberryB4
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