Busch And The Championship

[CIRF]

I agree that it's awesome. Kyle is the man. His accident was unfortunate, but the fact that you can skip half the season and still win the title hurts the integrity of not only the sport as a whole but to each of those first 26 races. Before 2004, every race counted the same. Now, you can win 35 races and lose the title to someone who wins one-or even none. Would be just as well off putting 43 drivers names in a hat and drawing the driver who wins.

A ron, you make wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too much sense for some of these idiots/fools.

Take a bow A ron, very good and factual post.

[A ron]

And here's some more food for thought: Say Kevin Harvick gets injured at Chicago this fall and misses the final 10 races, and Busch goes on to win the title. Harvick missed less races than Busch and probably has as many or more points. Where's the integrity in this system?

[A ron]

haha thank you CIRF

[stockcar5]

I'm surprised there is even a post about Nascar anymore. Do you guys really waste your live watching that junk?

[A ron]

Agreed stockcar5

[kidrock]

Yes some of still watch it maybe not like I used to you but, I still do. oh those silly choices we make in life.

[mudslinger47]

And here's some more food for thought: Say Kevin Harvick gets injured at Chicago this fall and misses the final 10 races, and Busch goes on to win the title. Harvick missed less races than Busch and probably has as many or more points. Where's the integrity in this system?

When Kyle gets to the 30th position, he'll go ahead of Harvick in points on the chase board...your point is null....

But other then that, I get a big chuckle out of the h8rs of Kyle and NASCAR getting their collective feathers all ruffled...that alone is worth the price of admission...... CIRF "SAYS" he doesn't even watch NASCAR, not being very truthful are we CIRF? if you weren't watching, you'd have no idea, #NASCARWINS LOL

[A ron]

My point wasn't that Harvick would be ahead, my point is that he should be. My point is that this is just another hole in the Chase System. Busch gets the benefit of erasing all those points between 30th and 1st, how is it fair for someone injured in the chase to not get the same. Yes I know those are the rules. Every race should count the same. The Daytona 500 pays more than any race of the year yet it pretty much means squat when it comes to the Championship. You can not be in any right mind and tell me it's okay that a driver can win 35 races and lose to person who averaged 15th.

[A ron]

And as I said earlier, I'm no Kyle hater. He's the man. What he's doing is amazing.

[mudslinger47]

My point wasn't that Harvick would be ahead, my point is that he should be. My point is that this is just another hole in the Chase System. Busch gets the benefit of erasing all those points between 30th and 1st, how is it fair for someone injured in the chase to not get the same. Yes I know those are the rules. Every race should count the same. The Daytona 500 pays more than any race of the year yet it pretty much means squat when it comes to the Championship. You can not be in any right mind and tell me it's okay that a driver can win 35 races and lose to person who averaged 15th.

Come n, that isn't even reasonable...when in the modern era has anyone won more then 7... heck 31 could have won the championship and never won a race...something wrong with that too? Aric Amarolia won a race and got in to the chase with a rain win, something wrong with that? Those are all anomalies that happen.... so what, lends itself to the mystique of the race.. Daytona means as much as any other race, ask Joey Lagono or Jr.... you win your in, to the rest its points....I think your confused... everyone in the chase format has the same option as Kyle or anyone else..they set the pressident with Tony Stewart, this isn't a Kow tow to Kyle cause NASCAR screwed up at Daytona, this is something set up a minimum of two years ago with Tony S. ....And personaly, I love that in the last race, its all or nothing you win or finish highest of the four and your the champ...makes for a hell of a show..

[A ron]

Whether we think it can or can't happen, it's a hole they left open. Ryan Newman nearly won the whole deal running 15th all year. Enjoy the "hell of a show" while you can because after Jr hangs it up, they will be lucky to be broadcast as a taped delay of highlights like bowling is today.

[t.nie]

This has been an interesting read.

I think it's favoritism to make a special provision for one driver to still be able to compete for the championship, no matter what the reason.

Wrecks and injuries happen in racing. It shouldn't result in special provisions being made so that someone can still run for a championship. I know there is a lot of money behind Busch, etc, and that has to be taken into consideration but where is the cutoff? How much money, how "popular" does the driver have to be to get a deal like that? Would they do the same for say, Justin Allgaier?

If they had a better championship format, they wouldn't need to do this.

I think the championship should be based upon winning races. From the start of the season, if you win a race, you get to race for the championship. Keep adding winners to the list until mathematically you have to start eliminating people from the list to whittle it down to a champion.

So if you have 14 different winners, when you get down to 14 races to go, you start the eliminator rounds. Say 4 races, bottom 4 in points who qualified to be championship contenders by virtue of a race win are now out. 10 races to go, do 5 races and kick the bottom 5 out. Last 5 races, 5 race for the championship and how they come out at the end decides the championship.

Every year the math is a little different but the theory is the same. Reward wins, and forget about points until the end. That would mean it really doesn't matter if you get hurt or sit out a few races due to injury, you still have to win just one race to be in it at the end. And put some stipulation in there that you have to be a legitimate competitor in NASCAR making a good faith effort to race in every event to contend, you can't just show up once in awhile or Start and Park after winning one race.

I also think that would allow more teams to do more "testing" type stuff during races once you win one, which would allow some other guys a chance to get into the championship that might not if say Kyle Busch is bringing his A game every week.

I am sure the idea has it's flaws, but the current system is really a joke now that they allowed Busch some special privileges.

[A ron]

Well I don't really think it's favoritism. Nascar hasn't allowed him any special privileges. The Chase rules have allowed them. It's no different than Denny Hamlin or Tony Stewart. The problem is that it isn't uniform. It's all luck of the draw. If one driver gets injured at Daytona and one gets injured at Richmond, both miss the same number of races, they should both have the same opportunity. The only way to do that is every race counts all year. No Point resetting. If they wanna allow some bad finishes or skipped races for health reasons, take each driver's top 25 or top 30 finishes like a lot of the dirt series do. And yes, Aric Almirola being in the Chase was wrong. It's a flawed system that places more emphasis on luck now than ever. You can be perfect all year and lose to someone who's been mediocre at best all year, the last race by getting taken out by someone who isn't even in the Chase, or one valve spring failure, etc. It may make you a dramatic show but where's the integrity in it?

[t.nie]

Well I don't really think it's favoritism. Nascar hasn't allowed him any special privileges. The Chase rules have allowed them. It's no different than Denny Hamlin or Tony Stewart. The problem is that it isn't uniform. It's all luck of the draw. If one driver gets injured at Daytona and one gets injured at Richmond, both miss the same number of races, they should both have the same opportunity. The only way to do that is every race counts all year. No Point resetting. If they wanna allow some bad finishes or skipped races for health reasons, take each driver's top 25 or top 30 finishes like a lot of the dirt series do. And yes, Aric Almirola being in the Chase was wrong. It's a flawed system that places more emphasis on luck now than ever. You can be perfect all year and lose to someone who's been mediocre at best all year, the last race by getting taken out by someone who isn't even in the Chase, or one valve spring failure, etc. It may make you a dramatic show but where's the integrity in it?

I get it. A season championship should not be decided by what occurs in one race, it should be the entire season accumulation of points. But they structured this like the stick and ball sports, there is a regular season championship decided by points (kind of like the conference championships or division championships in other sports), then they go into the Chase/post season playoff to decide who will get the ultimate crown.

And if you think about it, come Super Bowl time, if Tom Brady gets his knee wiped out on the first play and is out, that is similar to getting wrecked on the opening lap of the last championship race under this format. There is some difference because a backup QB might still be able to win it, but that's the difference between the stick and ball team sports and racing. Racing is one guy behind the wheel with a supporting cast (who can also screw up and cost you the title) and football is 11 players at once, but still if you lose your star at a key position, its probably game over.

What is kind of interesting is NASCAR is trying to be like these other sports but none of these other sports are trying to be like Nascar. I mean, can you imagine if the NFL determined its champion by total points scored in a season? But its a different sport, there is offense and defense in these other sports, whereas in racing there is really only being as fast as you can be over a race distance.

I guess that's why this Chase thing seems really contrived for ratings, not so much for racing purists.

I guess I can see the point that "the rules" are what allows for a waiver, but anytime I see the word waiver I kind of see that as a special provision being made for someone, because its basically saying the rules that everyone else has to abide by aren't going to apply to you in this instance. And ultimately that is granted by Nascar, as they are made the decision to waive the rule on being in every event due to his injury.

I think the point was that NASCAR thought fans wanted to see guys race "head to head, winner take all" for the crown, and I am like well, isn't that what they were doing every weekend anyway?

[mudslinger47]

I really don't get caught up in the chase, its the racing that I enjoy and its as good as ever..... how or who is the champ makes little difference to me...sure its a feather in the cap of the guy that wins it, but other then getting to say my guy won the championship, nothing,,,,its about the racing... I have been to dirt tracks that line up weird... so what, its about the racing..... heck years ago we used to line up by money won, the more you won the further back you started...... once again, its about the racing, ya'll get all caught up in the politics and miss the enjoyment....

[A ron]

I agree. My thing is Tom Brady's knee can't get blown out in the Super Bowl by a team who isn't playing in the Super Bowl. Playoffs aren't for racing. You can't have teams that aren't playing influencing the outcome. For instance: take the last 3 race segment last year. Jeff Gordon finished 1 position ahead of Newman in race 1. Jeff Gordon finished 1 position behind Newman at Texas (with a bunch of NON Chase people in between), and Gordon finishes higher then Newman at Phoenix with several Chase drivers between them, but Newman goes to the next round because the drivers not even in the Chase affect how the points are awarded.

[A ron]

The problem to me is that it's messed up the racing. Look at Homestead last year. Everybody basically pitted because they were scared of messing up the top 4.

[Kwaz-13]

I think it's still too early to worry about this. Kyle is on a hot streak. If you run is average points per race of 32.6 for the full 20 complete races, he would have 652 putting him only 6th place overall. His team needs to work on consistency to have a chance at the championship. He's got 2 DNFs in 7 races vs Harvick, Logano, Johnson who all have 0 DNFs in 20 starts.

[mudslinger47]

The problem to me is that it's messed up the racing. Look at Homestead last year. Everybody basically pitted because they were scared of messing up the top 4.

Again, your looking at the politics of the racing...their rules are set, why worry about them, watch the race for what it is...racing.... I argue the point with CIRF and T.nie cause they, like me like to argue..... to me its fun and a dam site better then whats on tv most of the time...

[racin6mod]

couple points: nascar and Daytona raceway are owned by the Frances they we're the ones that didn't protect the drivers with safe wall everywhere. I don't think a driver/team has to race every event to still win the champion ship in any form of motorsport as long as they are good enough to win races and run good when they show up. just look at the nhra and all the dirt series across the country.