Is the crate killing imca mods

[UltimateRaceCars]

Car counts up here in WI are staying the same if not growing, its making it an easier transition technically and monetarily for the sportmod guys to move up. I think its been positive for the class overall, I personally would like to see the spoiler gone though to even it up and a spec aluminum head just to see some parity between engine options like there is in the sportmods.
Like a previous poster stated I have yet to see someone that normally runs in the back of the pack bolt a crate in and start running up front. You need a good handling balanced car regardless of your engine choice.
I bought my 604 took it out of the crate, bolted on a JDR carb and put it in my car and was just as fast as the guys who spent tons of money on dyno tuning and hand picked engines. Total cost in my crate vs my claim engine setup was the same. The big savings for me was time, I didnt have to touch my engine all season other than oil changes.

[jasjenh]

Its good to hear its growing where you are at. I hate to see what is happening at our track but it was a single file crate train on Saturday. The stands are starting to reflect that also. boring racing equals no fans. The sportmods really put on a good show and its been 50/50 on crate vs claim so they have it right there.

We were joking around in the pits and thought that bigger motors would make as about much sense as the crate so why not. A good friend of mine put it this way when he went from open to a crate this year. "Its like having legal traction control"

[stockcar5]

sportmods have it right? you've got to be kidding. a 4 barrel on a vortec head 9.5 to 1 motor vs a 4412 on a 9-1 motor with smogger heads..

I cant remember the last time I saw a open motor sportmod win a race if even in the last 3-5 years.

We see them win around here. Last years national champ will be switching soon. Waiting on the rotating assembly to get balanced.

[jasjenh]

The guys around here figured it out with the claim motor. Boring is single file cant pass racing because its all about momentum on the high side. At least the sport mods can race two or three wide and can pass one another.

And yes he has won the last five races in a row. It is a little easier from the front half of the field but the point average is getting better now. In the lead by lap two and checks out.

[wadegarrett]

I agree confused. Probably dont need to spend that much but people that are winning are spending that. last night was 6 in a row for the crate at our track. While i was sitting in between rounds i had a light bulb go on. lol We need imca to create a class called the drivers class. same cars as now but no smaller then a 400 cube motor. 12to1 or more compression,aftermarket heads only. roller cams a must. alcohol or e85 only no gas. no two barrels ,maybe even 2 four barrels. no power cutting devices. Now that would bring some fun back into the mix. lol Any other suggestions?

The crate deal is causing issues, I know of one place up north where a top running crate is somehow turning 8k...they blamed the msd box, and changed it out...but I dont buy it. Also hearing about lots of cheating going with cam changes not to mention the high dollar team buying multiple crates. Then you got the UMP bmods where they are forcing you to go to a crate and not even offering you an option for an open motor by imposing heavy weight rules. We wont run a crate and if thats the only option we will move on to another class or find another hobby.

[sirleafalot]

sportmods have it right? you've got to be kidding. a 4 barrel on a vortec head 9.5 to 1 motor vs a 4412 on a 9-1 motor with smogger heads.. I cant remember the last time I saw a open motor sportmod win a race if even in the last 3-5 years.

you may want to check results at Fairmont MN open motors winning in sport mod class without issue.

[wadegarrett]

Are you talking about IMCA modifieds? How are they changing the cam? Why would they change the cam? the motors work fine stock. Why does it matter if a person buys multiple crates, I have two, big deal? fyi, They ALL dyno within 5-7 hp new and even out after a few nights. Why would they want to turn a crate 8000 rpm?

I dont know you claim to be the crate expert on here you tell us why the big teams are buying numerous engines and dynoing them and selling the rest ? I doubt they are doing it for fun. If there is no advantage then why are they doing it ??? As far as the cam deal goes pretty simple to figure this one out, different cam more rpms more hp. way I hear it you drill a hole in the timing cover behind the water pump which is tough to see and knock out back plug and change cam, and viola ! But hey there is no need to tech these crate motors lol, they are all sealed up, lmao Glad you like the crate the trouble is the many of us do not want to be forced into running them, and the way things are shaping up racers are being forced into running them.

[Confused?]

The cams can be checked without pulling them. It takes more time than most tracks want to spend on tech. There are several tracks around the country that won't check them. That allows for cheating. The same would be true for any class not teched.

Oh, and SCD, just because it says 6400, doesn't always mean it measures 6400

[50j]

The boxes and rev limiters get checked regularly fwiw.

[Confused?]

Not everywhere

[wadegarrett]

where there is smoke there is fire. SCD why dont you try proving to us that crates are not being sold cheated up for 11to 13k ? then on top of all this there are IMCA tracks grooming the track to insure dry slick conditions to benefit the crates. There are way to many people pushing for crates...follow the money its really that easy.

[UltimateRaceCars]

Their may very well be cheated up crate engines out there but the point SCD is trying to make is that it isnt necessary. From my experiences in IMCA with both the 602 and 604 crate engine you are just fine buying the engine and putting it in your car. Their is no need to get a cheated up engine or buying a few and dynoing them and selling the "weak" ones. All the big races and most of the weekly races are being held on very slick tracks which with the IMCA tires can only hold about 350hp so why waste your money on a cheated engine?

[TS3g]

I'm with Ultimate and SCD on this one....although I see lots of claimer Sport Mods winning in KS (which includes the current national points leader), so I'm not a 100% behind SCD. But anyways...

Soooo, crates are killing IMCA modifieds because they have less horsepower and are easier to drive? But, cheated crates are even worse because they have more horsepower than a normal crate? So what then, normal crates are underpowered but fast, but a cheated crate has enough power to beat a normal crate, but not so much to overpower the tires like an open engine, thus are superduper fast? LOL, just LOL.

Racers I swear are the most egotistical and narrow-minded people ever. Rather than admitting their own shortcomings with regards to driving ability or car setup and spending time and effort to improve them, it's ALWAYS some trick part/engine/money/whatever that so-and-so has that makes them faster than they are. Want to know the real secret to going fast? Tune your car/driver to go faster through the corner and quit worrying about whats under the hood or what pullbar Joe Bob is using or what John Boy had for lunch. It really is that simple.

[ask0329]

I cannot verify this first hand but was told by someone who i feel is a trust worthy person that does their homework that you can buy a 604 from F_____n C_______t that has been "loosened up", ran on the dyno, blue printed and a host of other things and the stock seals put right back on it that puts out just in excess of 600hp. Whether these are ending up in IMCA mods or late models I dont know. He was talking in the context of putting one in his RUSH late model.

As for crate engines up here in the northeast. IMCA mods where a thriving class. We had jeez 9 tracks or so with 16-24 cars at each. Then DIRT went to the 602 engine in the NE DIRT Sportsman class. (not imca style mods). Well we are now at 4 imca tracks, none of which with full fields. The NE Dirt sportsman class is out of control. 30+ cars for a regular night. So much so that tracks have added a novice sportsman class cause they where sending too many cars home. The numbers are out of control and its now the biggest division in the north east.

So in that aspect, yes crates have killed imca mods. Atleast up in the NY/PA area.

[oldtrackchamp4x]

TS3g. Right on the money!!!!! JMO.

[25drtrkr]

Carroll Smith, longtime Chevy engineer, coined a famous saying: Tune your chassis and pick up 100hp.

Those who get this are the ones that win, week in and week out!

[wadegarrett]

When you start answering my questions I might consider answering yours. Until then your just slinging unfounded made up accusations like all the other whiners out there. I race every time out with "the big teams". My motors are straight out of the crate and I win now and then and beat them all here and there.

no better or worse then your dying allegiance to the crate. the question is already answered for me enjoy the crates, got no issues other than the sanctions and tracks bending rules to support he crates and give them an advantage and then not doing tech, and trying to force out the open motors..

[wadegarrett]

I built a brand new open engine last winter. I've ran 50/50 crate open so far. I lwoukd rather race my open. it makes more noise and fries more tires!! But that doesn't make me want to sling mud lies and stupid accusations about the crate. Anyone can buy a crate they are cheap and reliable.

you can come on here and say people are not cheating up crates but you cant prove that either, whatever, go by you another crate for all I care. The point is that the reason the crates are winning are not HP or a better motor its because of the rule changes. keep believing that no one is cheating up the crates.

[ask0329]

Stock Car Driver, The fella that told me about the 600HP Fresen Chevys has no reason to lie to me and would not make this stuff up. Where he got his info, I dont know.

If you read the title of the thread again it clearly states "Is the crate killing IMCA Mods" My reply about the NE sportsman is on par with this. I clearly showed how yes the crate killed the IMCA mods in our neck of the woods. Nowhere in that title does it state "is the crate in imca mods killing imca mods". so yes I accurately replied.

As for the seal bolts, this i have seen with my very own eyes and it is not rocket science. You, or anyone for that matter, can remove the Factory GM seals, do whatever you want to your engine and put them same exact seals right back in and with a little work it looks like they have never been removed. I have followed my buddys 602 from disassemble to a bare block, through full assembly and right back in his car with the very same stock GM seals from the factory. I could show you 10 engines 5 of which have had this done and I'd guarantee you could not pick out all 5. I can personally verify this as again, I have seen this done many times. Ever see the GM seals that are sold on Crate Insider? Tell ya what, our tech up here wasnt good enough to notice my generic $75 cheater seals so theres no way on gods green earth they would be able to pick out the $300 seals from crate insider as being illegal.

[ask0329]

Is that island on McConaughy Lake?