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rustymod,do you own a car or pay 100% of the bills???? running a crate is much much cheaper....the coupler and headers are the only thing different...take your current carb and send it to your carb guy and have it calibrated for a crate and he will get you real close......in what world can you run a open motor 50-60 races and get 2 thirds of your money back.....or even run a open motor 50-60 nights with out digging into her????? i agree it suck's for the local machine shops....but how can you go wrong with $5800,change the oil and look at the valve's once a month and not worry about her.....plus burn half the fuel......man this just terrible
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 Originally Posted by brett4
rustymod,do you own a car or pay 100% of the bills???? running a crate is much much cheaper....the coupler and headers are the only thing different...take your current carb and send it to your carb guy and have it calibrated for a crate and he will get you real close......in what world can you run a open motor 50-60 races and get 2 thirds of your money back.....or even run a open motor 50-60 nights with out digging into her????? i agree it suck's for the local machine shops....but how can you go wrong with $5800,change the oil and look at the valve's once a month and not worry about her.....plus burn half the fuel......man this just terrible
yeah got one and pay bills with open motor...assembled on my own after machine work. BTW did not change a single valve spring all year. All said and done might have 5k in motor total. running E85 no issues with fuel costs either. So tell me again how I would save money with a crate ? Ran fine all year long no issues and guess what when it needs rebuilt I will send parts off and do it all over again.....I dont need or want a crate.
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strange...every crate racer I know is changing valve springs every 10-15 nights, and if you look in the crate late section of this board you will even see a post where racers are doing to the same thing
http://www.4m.net/showthread.php?339...-valve-springs
SCD if you got 60 nights good for you. I can typically get 40 nights without a rebuild, unless there is an issue. have gone longer but prefer to go at the 40 point to be safe and for performance. In general I have no issues with the crates but I am seeing more and more tracks not using water as much and not grooming the tracks to keep things dry...and this does help those running a crate. This I do not agree with. I want the playing field to be even but from what I see the spoiler and dry track on 1/2 mile is an advantage for crates.
Last edited by rustymod; 08-31-2015 at 12:00 AM.
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Originally Posted by stock car driver
Rusty this your link is to a thread about a 602 that is NOT the crate ran in IMCA modifieds this thread is about!!!
Heres a link to a thread about the actual crate used in IMCA modifieds.
http://www.4m.net/showthread.php?349...behive-springs
Ive been on way way way more heavy tracks this season than dry, around Iowa. Maybe they didn't get the crate memo you guys are always claiming is going around for track prep?
I had 60 nights on that crate when I sold it with a car, it has about 100 on it now according to the new owner. And local late models around here that have ran the same crate but more rpm have ran them over 200 nights...
the guys we pit next too have been changing every 10 nights with there IMCA crate....so I guess someone needs to enlighten them....
I am happy with open motor and there are room for both in the class.
the real culprit to ruining it for everyone are the UMP bmods where they are FORCING you to run a crate, with no other option, thus we have run no more UMP.
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Local tracks are trying to get UMP to back off forcing us to run crates.. Lets hope it works out.
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Originally Posted by CsR41
Local tracks are trying to get UMP to back off forcing us to run crates.. Lets hope it works out.
this is great to hear ! We ran the Hobby Mod class at FALS and really like it. all the tracks around us are running UMP B mods which require a crate which is silly. Would really like to see track promoters get UMPs attention on this deal, not everyone wants to run a crate.
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Our engine rules need a revamping IMO, some guys are 13:1 355ci.. But I agree, let us run crate or open.. and don't penalize the guys who want to run an open!
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Originally Posted by CsR41
Our engine rules need a revamping IMO, some guys are 13:1 355ci.. But I agree, let us run crate or open.. and don't penalize the guys who want to run an open!
agreed, this UMP deal of adding more weight until all are forced into crates is just wrong, and glad to hear promoters are going to push back. UMP A mods are out of hand engine wise IMO, but crates only is not the answer either. at this point I am thrilled that FALS has an alternative at least.
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crates work great when you can install all the parts you need..here is how.but just ask anyone there is no cheating in the crates lmao http://www.ebay.com/itm/602-Crate-en...9?roken=cUgayN
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The 4 link ruined modifieds!
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You know..... You hear every year that the guys running Crates have guys waiting in line to buy these things..... IF AND I MEAN IF this was true, WITH all the crate users out there now and as long as the Crate has been being used in racing now.... That would mean everyone racing would have a Crate by now.......AND THEY DONT. And as for DYNO TIME.....the guys I am talking about spend a lot of money on Engine Dynos... They try several sets of Headers, Carbs, Ignition, Fuel, and others to find every ounce of power.....And Yes these guys win a lot of races. And anyone who knows anything, Knows they don't give that Dyno Time away.... And now they find a cheated crate in East Coast Mods..... But they have a TEAR DOWN RULE.... And that's what needs done with the crates, TEAR THEM DOWN..... Now let the crate babies start crying.....
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RaceTechKs, your reference to guys spending a lot of money on dyno time in order to get everything out of their crate, is irrelevant. We have 2 open engines and 1 crate, all to run UMP b-mod, and we have spent just as much time on the dyno with the open engines as we have the crate. It doesn't matter which engine it is, we want to get the most out of it. I am not a fan of the crate personally, I do believe that the rules for us this season were pretty close with the 2 options. We won a lot of races with the open, but also got beat a few times by a crate.
I can also add, we bought our crate directly from Weir Chevrolet in Red Bud, IL. Box stock, out of the crate with a good willys carb, beyea headers and Jones setup on the front, we had about $6000 in everything. After tuning the carb and timing, went 370rwhp, which is right in the ballpark of most built 355s that I have worked with.
Last edited by stpmotorsports; 11-16-2015 at 09:02 AM.
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Just a little update. I started this thread because I was seeing a trend at our local tracks. Now I know it is true in our area after the season wrapped up. Two years ago we had 18 cars on average. This season we started with a 12 car average. 50/50 crate vs open. By the end of the year we were down to 5 cars all crates. As a promoter I would be worried.
Basically what happened, one of the hold out veteran drivers finally bought a crate and won 12 in a row. With no claim or exchange or tech people got frustrated and just quit coming to the track. I get it at the big specials everyone runs a crate and that's fine but at a local level not everyone wants to run a crate and its killing the numbers around here.
Its sad to say but I hung up the helmet after 20 years. If you don't have a sliver of hope for a win why be there. When I talked to Root about it I was told to go to B-mods because that sounds like all I could afford. Well we are racing for 400.00 to win why should we need to spend 50000 a year to race locally. I get it on the big specials you are going to have heavy hitters that are going to spend what ever it takes to win.
Not sure what the answer is and I think the crate was the right choice short term to bring down engine costs but there needs to be parity between the open and crate. Its sure has turned into "buy it" class. When the mod class was developed it was to give an average guy a chance to race because late models got out of hand. Looks like history is repeating itself.
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What is "killing racing" is the changing of the times. There is less interest from the younger kids than in the past. I teach junior high students and have for many years. There is a definite switch in their activities and interests. There is also a major change in family dynamics. Couple that with a change in economic times for many families and you can see the change. Movie theaters, amusement parks, etc... have all seen a down turn in their economics. This isn't a "sky is falling" problem. There are still many local tracks that are thriving. We have lost some also. The fact is that if we have drivers "retire" or stop driving and we don't replace them with someone, the field shrinks. I can go on and on about factors that are supposedly killing our sport, but I will stop. It is simple and always has been. Some will be faster than others. Some will spend more than others. Some will complain more than others. Some will work harder that others. Some will learn more than others. And some will stop and blame others. That is life!
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Originally Posted by jasjenh
Just a little update. I started this thread because I was seeing a trend at our local tracks. Now I know it is true in our area after the season wrapped up. Two years ago we had 18 cars on average. This season we started with a 12 car average. 50/50 crate vs open. By the end of the year we were down to 5 cars all crates. As a promoter I would be worried.
Basically what happened, one of the hold out veteran drivers finally bought a crate and won 12 in a row. With no claim or exchange or tech people got frustrated and just quit coming to the track. I get it at the big specials everyone runs a crate and that's fine but at a local level not everyone wants to run a crate and its killing the numbers around here.
Its sad to say but I hung up the helmet after 20 years. If you don't have a sliver of hope for a win why be there. When I talked to Root about it I was told to go to B-mods because that sounds like all I could afford. Well we are racing for 400.00 to win why should we need to spend 50000 a year to race locally. I get it on the big specials you are going to have heavy hitters that are going to spend what ever it takes to win.
Not sure what the answer is and I think the crate was the right choice short term to bring down engine costs but there needs to be parity between the open and crate. Its sure has turned into "buy it" class. When the mod class was developed it was to give an average guy a chance to race because late models got out of hand. Looks like history is repeating itself.
good post pointing out that not all is perfect in a crate world. The other thing that I keep hearing is that promoters are altering track conditions to help crates, like leaving the track dryer some weeks. As some others have mentioned the worst situation is UMP B mods where they are forcing the class into crates as the ONLY option. I predict this will come back to bite UMP. At least with IMCA the crate is still only an option.
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Those UMP tracks will lose cars and spectators with a rule like that. No spectators, no concession or ticket sales. The tracks may want to consider going IMCA or USRA. The crate should be an option but not the only option, and the rules should give both an equal chance of winning. People by nature like to have choices.
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Car counts overall didn't change around here due to the crate. A track i race at struggled to get 8-10 mods. One show had a whopping 6 cars with 3 finishing the race. Motor is a small part of the expense of the mod.
Last edited by stockcar5; 11-19-2015 at 04:03 PM.
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Originally Posted by let-r-eat
Back in the day a $1K set of heads would make you a top regional racer. Now everyone has that type stuff.
Most castings cost that much now days.
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