Is the crate killing imca mods

[jasjenh]

Just wondering whats happening around the country with the imca mods now that we have a few years with the crate. Our local track has lost cars because of it, just wondering if that's a trend or we are abnormal. We used to draw in 18 to 20 cars now we are down to 10 to 12.

I have tried to talk to the guys that quit and some said they wouldn't run a crate others quit because of cost of switching over, others said shock packages have gotten out of hand. I am not bashing the crate, something had to be done to control costs, but I think there is better options or the rules need tweaked to help out the open motor guys.

I am another one of those guys on the fence of quitting because I will never run a crate. Why its a principal thing. I could build that same motor for half the cost in my garage if the rules allowed.

Please lets try to keep this a good discussion not a bashing post. I know that will be hard. lol

[powerslide]

Are crates dominating the track you run? The same guys who won before the crate still winning?

[let-r-eat]

I agree that the engines shouldn't need to be sealed. Anyone should be able to get the parts that's on a 604 or 602 and build one and be legal.

Many think this is an avenue for cheating but at any real crate race they are inspecting the engines anyway.

[jasjenh]

try to run the north Dakota tour with an open motor or vegas or any big series, they are dominated by crates. why because they have an advantage. ask any big name driver that tried staying with the open motor then switched to the crate to keep up.

our track is 50/50 open vs crate but the top 5 are almost always crate. the guys that were in the back a couple years ago are in the front now with the crate. any veteran driver that has gave in to the crate is immediately back up front.

[oldtrackchamp4x]

Yea, saw the Jeff Taylor interview in North Dakota. He tried running a "crate killer" motor that Mullins built for him but he had to put his crate motor in after two or three races as he was not competitive. Think he won the next two features. JMO

[Lizardracing]

That's the problem. A racer never has to buy everything new. There are about a gazillion used but good shape parts where money can be saved. Cranks and rods and pistons prolly aren't good places but remember when everyone built their engines instead of buying from a catalog? I do. Remember when you repaired what you have instead of replacing everything? I do. With a crate, if something goes wrong its another $3500 instead of the cost of repair.
I don't have any real answers to the the why racing as a hobby perhaps someday gone or even outdated but I can tell ya it was a lot more fun building a car and competing your ideas against others than buying everything and assembling it per the instructions. Around these parts the 9:1 open engine and the crates seem real popular. Affordable and yet still fun.

[jasjenh]

When we all had 2 or 3 open motors lying around that we could freshen every year for a 1000 to 2000 dollars a piece and get a season out of them, it didn't seem that bad money wise. Unless you had a total failure. ouch. Now to keep up with the "jones" we have to run out and spend anywhere from 8000 to 10000 and start over with the motors. Yes them prices are real numbers from guys I talked to at the track.

Yes the next motor is a lot cheaper once you are set up but I have been hearing about a lot of failures in the first couple of nights of use. If you get past that they are supposed to be pretty reliable.

Yes everything has gone up in price no doubt about it. I agree with lizardracing it was a lot more fun when we built everything. I still try to do as much as I can which is a lot but you cant do everything yourself anymore and still be competitive.

Gould has some posts on facebook too about the issue. If guys with that kind of backing cant make it a go, how can us normal 9 to 5 guys make it work.

[ride height]

Crates are so cheated up. Nobody just runs an out of the box crate and wins. 10k crate motors are the norm. Its pretty much ruined. Sad to say.

[ask0329]

Pretty good article. Theres mention of IMCA style mods in it as well.

http://www.onedirt.com/features/the-ripple-effect/

[Confused?]

I find it funny with all the complaining about the crates, nobody is wanting to build 11:1 355s anymore. They still want the big hp motors and can't understand why they get beat by a motor that makes a little over 400hp and 400 lbs. of torque. I think the intent was to get everyone back to lower hp numbers and less expensive motors. My next one will not be any more that a 11:1 383, if that.

The guys winning down here were winning with open motors too. The crate won't make a 16th place driver, a winner. It takes more than that.

[jasjenh]

I disagree with confused on the 16th place guy going to the front. At our track the better drivers and veteran driver were reluctant to change at first. All of a sudden the guys that were getting lapped were starting to finish up front. Now the better drivers and veterans that switch to the crate are back up front. Just a fact from our track.

I agree with the smaller motors that's what most of us open motor guys are doing but it doesn't seem to be good enough.

I don't know gould at all. Just read some opinions of his and I tend to agree with him and taylor. I am not saying an open motor cant win. we have had our share of top fours this year but the wins are 90 percent crate guys.

stock car driver maybe you do have 32000 in your crate. I don't know you,but two of my good buddies have 8000 and 9000 in their crates respectfully. That was to get started from scratch. Best of the best of everything. I personally think they went overboard.

We bring two cars to the track every week, and I hate to penalize the track for quitting but until they do something about the situation its like bringing a gun to a knife fight.

[swartzman]

all I can say is Tim dohm, 20,000 wvms, straight out of the crate, no blue printing, no nothing..

[Dirtracer50]

Are guys running the same carb as they were on open motors or are they buying a crate specific carb? I've seen crate carbs selling for as much as $2,100. That would greatly add to the cost of running a crate if someone figured it was needed.

I build my own engines and don't plan to ever run a crate but I do believe the crates have an advantage. If there was no advantage to the crate engine I wouldn't see guys bringing two cars to the track and deciding which one to run based on track conditions.

I wish IMCA would have left the aerodynamics alone and given a 50lb weight break to a crate car instead of a spoiler. Just my opinion tho and I've probably been wrong a lot more than I have been correct.

[Confused?]

Was talking with a Crate driver last night. He told me that his set-up is everything exactly the same as Grabowski"s. He told me the headers were $900. There is room for exaggeration but I do know there are headers being used that are in excess of $700 for built motors. His complete set-up from lines to pulleys to headers was well over $10K. It's all of the bolt on stuff that is driving the costs up. A driver does not need to buy all of the high dollars parts, but there seems to be a lot of monkey see, monkey do. Those that have the money are going to spend it.

[jasjenh]

I agree confused. Probably dont need to spend that much but people that are winning are spending that. last night was 6 in a row for the crate at our track. While i was sitting in between rounds i had a light bulb go on. lol

We need imca to create a class called the drivers class. same cars as now but no smaller then a 400 cube motor. 12to1 or more compression,aftermarket heads only. roller cams a must. alcohol or e85 only no gas. no two barrels ,maybe even 2 four barrels. no power cutting devices. Now that would bring some fun back into the mix. lol

Any other suggestions?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I agree confused. Probably dont need to spend that much but people that are winning are spending that. last night was 6 in a row for the crate at our track. While i was sitting in between rounds i had a light bulb go on. lol

We need imca to create a class called the drivers class. same cars as now but no smaller then a 400 cube motor. 12to1 or more compression,aftermarket heads only. roller cams a must. alcohol or e85 only no gas. no two barrels ,maybe even 2 four barrels. no power cutting devices. Now that would bring some fun back into the mix. lol

Any other suggestions?

Rules to make engines bigger? Lol

[Confused?]

How about eliminating the 2" blade for the crates and put all of the Mods on 8" slicks. That would be interesting to say the least.

[Confused?]

I'm just stating what I was told by this driver. He has the coin to throw it away like that. Said he wanted everything the same as Grabowski. SCD, you may know this guy. He's been to Boone several times and like to party while he's there. He will be there this year too. I won't post his name on here though.

I personally wouldn't waste my money on a wrap, but that's a discussion for a different thread.

[Confused?]

Not him. I will go some time, but I won't take a car. May go as an official. Not sure yet.

[twisterf5]

we run a 602 crate class in nc. you can spend money on bolt on's to gain a little hp. but we run a basic set up v pullys holly ultra hp out of the box 200 dollar headers with a muffler and we make more hp on the dyno than any one running with us.monky see monky do is what drives up prices and even a 602 will out run a built motor at the right track we took are car to ny and finished 4th with it. we ran ump with a 421 that i could of bought 4 crates with what that thing cost. having more fun now with a crate wife get to go out more and took win #15 this year on friday i will never go back to an open motor.