Hp gain with Vortec heads enough to go IMCA MOD?

[fastford]

The thing I don't understand is the same 2 engines in the hobby stock division have to run the same carburetion, but in the Sportmod division the engines are the same but one of them gets a 4 barrel and not the other, they have crippled the claim engine IMO, why do you think there is only a handful of claim engines running in the Sportmod division in this area? We should both be allowed to run the same carb why should the 350 cubic inch engine I build have to run a 2 barrel but somebody who chooses to buy one from GM gets to run a 4 barrel keep in mind these engines are the same displacement, the same compression, basically the same intake, and the crate has better heads. It doesn't make any sense to me.

we have the same problem down here, the 602s can run any carb they want, he!! there are some running carbs that cost half as much as the engine, but if you build your engine or run a ford like me, your stuck with a bone stock 2 brl holley . every street stock class down here goes by Nesmith rules and they want to sell engines so the tracks let them have there way. I will say its caused me to go back to the drawing board and I think our new crown vic frame and our old 2brl 351 may have a chance now, until they outlaw it....lol

[raceking26]

First off, why is almost everyone running a crate?

Simple, they are cheaper.
1. Cost less initially
2. Less maintenance
3. Cheaper maintenence
4. Most last 5x longer than a claim
You add all that together and then look at the fact that they are a competitive option, seems pretty obvious to me.

Yes, the shortblock and intake is basically the same, and the crate has a little better heads. But the claim gets unlimited rpm, unlimited option of cam, and better valve train. Plus I'd love to know how many claims run ported heads. Becuase local track tech would never catch it anyway, but that's besides the point.

It baffles the sh*t outta me to hear claim motor guys b*tch about carbs and then in a heat race that is hammer down they stomp the sh*t outta the crate. With that TERRIBLE 2 barrel they have to run. Then when it slicks off they can't get outta their own way. Why?? Becuase all they do is blow the tires off it.

And the hobby deal is irrelevant. Different carb, different exhaust, different car.

[fastford]

cheaper can be argued both ways, I can build one cheaper, not every one can. 1.theres still a lot of expense after you open the crate, some give an expensive advantage ,ie: the 1500 dollar braswell carb. 2. maintenance is not necessarily less, when its time to freshen it up, you have to take it to a certified rebuilder and pay extra. I can maintain mine myself. 3, see no.2 4.who ever is building those claimers needs to find something else to do.

[50j]

In Sportmod the hp numbers between the 602 and claim engines is very close and people win with both. The rules are good.

[raceking26]

Fastford. There's alot of guys that don't have parts laying around to build an engine. When I compare having to buy every single peice to build a claimer verse a crate, then pay to have the machine work done, then pay to have it assembled, the crate is way cheaper. For guys that confident enough to assemble themselves, that's a huge plus. I honestly wish I did know that, but I dont.

And I love when the crate haters start throwing $$ out there about how much the parts for a crate cost. Anybody can spend that kind of money on ANY MOTOR OUT THERE!! I know of imca hobby carbs in that price range. So what the hell does that prove?

Maintenence isn't less?? The average clamor gets freshened at 30-40 nights. (Yes I know, some people go past that but guys that run competitive and run their motors hard, usually refresh in that area). There is crates out there with 200+ nights on them. Never been touched. Pencil that out for me.

Exactly 50j, the rules are fine.

[fastford]

I call BS on that 200 plus nights unless there only running 5 laps per night, but any way, by your own admission of your engine building skills, you probably should stick to a crate. I don't mind running against crates, just keep the play ground equal and don't give extra breaks to promote a product. im baseing my opinions on the street stocks down south, or NESMITH, this sport mod do seem more fair , here the 602 get 200 lb weight break and open carb.

[dirtracer07x]

Why not just let us build the same motor as a crate? 9-1 flat top, vortec heads, limit cam, any carb, performer intake and 6200 chip. but really as somebody already said it comes down to tech. if you dont tech then who really knows what your running against.

[raceking26]

Fastford. You apparently haven't been around the crate much. There is numerous crates that are close or beyond 200 nights. Stockcars driver and Derek will attest to that. I'm only 28 and a first generation racer, so I never grew up learning how to build engines. So no, I don't feel confident enough to put something together. And I understand your frustration with the crate getting a 200lb weight break. Our rules everybody weighs the same.

[fastford]

ive been around them long enough, im 52, but here is the thing, on average a street stock or crate late here runs 50 to 60 laps a night, thats hot laps, heats and feature. 200 nights equals 10,000 plus laps. at that amount of laps, I will bet if you do a leak down test and check valve spring seat pressure , you will find a problem. by the way, my local certified gm rebuilder recommends a freshen at 5000 laps, and that's hard for me to believe. im not saying it wont run 10,000 laps , but no engine that's hammered that amount of laps is making optimum H.P.

[dereksehi]

There are crates around that have a bunch of nights on them. Part of the reason they can run that many nights its because of the low rpm they can run, if they would allow the claim engine a 4 barrel and have to run a 6200 chip they would be able to run just as many nights with about the same amount of maintenance. Low RPM is what makes them durable if they were running 7000 rpm every night they wouldn't last 200 nights.

[raceking26]

Well yeah, anybody who knows just a tiny bit about engines knows it's the 6200 limit that keeps them alive for that long. They couldn't run 7000 if they had to, it would grenade in a very short time. The valve train in them is just cheap stock parts. I wouldn't be apposed to the claimer on a 4 barrel with 6200 chip. I know Adams County did it, ive obviously never raced there, but I never heard of it being a problem

[raceking26]

And fastford, I'd say a typical night around here is probably around 4 hot laps, 8-10 heat laps, 18-20 feature laps. So roughly 30-35 laps a night. That's about 6000-7000 laps in 200 nights and they still win. Like it or not, believe it or not, it's the truth

[dereksehi]

The claim with a 4 barrel and a 6200 chip is what I would like to be able to run on my claim engine that would only be fair.

[fastford]

And fastford, I'd say a typical night around here is probably around 4 hot laps, 8-10 heat laps, 18-20 feature laps. So roughly 30-35 laps a night. That's about 6000-7000 laps in 200 nights and they still win. Like it or not, believe it or not, it's the truth

I guess the key word is" around here" , but either way its about being fair and giving someone a competitive choice and when you take that away then all you have is the old asa association and everyone knows which way that went...

[raceking26]

The rules are already fair. I've already said your claimer runs just as hard if not harder than my crate. What in the h*ll more do you want?