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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CIRF View Post
    Pee wee jr. wasn't going to win the race without the caution. NASCAR once again deprived the fans and Larson and Keselowski of what might have been a great finish. Larson was probably going to catch Keselowski but whether he could have passed him is something we'll never know.

    I'd have missed the whole thing but for my Wife getting home from work and asking about if the race was over yet with about 35 laps to go.

    Pee wee jr. is champion!! Yessssssssss!!!!

    Quite possibly the most illegitimate champion, ever. At least the most illegitimate since 1990.

    Another large chunk of NASCAR credibility goes down the drain. NASCAR really doesn't have much more to piss away.

    The last 1/2 of the 2015 NASCAR Cup season is the most interest I've taken in NASCAR in over 10 years and I'm sad it's over but very happy pee wee jr. won the championship!

    Kyle didn't have to win the race, and he was over 10 seconds ahead of Harvick, Kyle was going to be the Champion regardless of whether they had a yellow or not....sorry, no conspiracy there, but thanks for trying...

  2. #42
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    I watched the race, not another Chase competitor was even in the same zip code as Kyle was... and everyone knows how NASCAR loves Kurt and Kyle Busch....if you want a conspiracy, try this one on, NASCAR throw the yellow to try and keep Kyle from winning, I venture to say that would be more like it....NASCAR didn't figure in Kyles crack crew, did they...(if that were the case)

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudslinger47 View Post
    Kyle didn't have to win the race, and he was over 10 seconds ahead of Harvick, Kyle was going to be the Champion regardless of whether they had a yellow or not....sorry, no conspiracy there, but thanks for trying...
    I wasn't implying any type of conspiracy, one way or the other. However, the appearance of the caution certainly worked more in favor of Harvick than pee wee jr.

    I would agree that pee wee jr. was going to win the championship with or without a caution.

    I remember well the last race of the 1992 season at Atlanta, Kyle Petty, Davey Allison, Bill Elliott and Alan Kulwicki were well within striking distance of the championship and it all came down to just 1 lap that Alan led more than Elliott that clinched the title after a whole season of racing. Paul Andrews {Kulwicki's crew chief} and Alan Kulwicki had it figured out and they got it done in all the confusion and excitement of the moment. Great stuff, for sure.

    What we were disappointed about was that the race would have been much more exciting if Larson had got close enough to Keselowski to attempt a pass. I think he would have but we'll never know now. Disappointing, for sure.

  4. #44
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    I remember the good old days of NASCAR when "debris on the track" had to be a wrecked car and not today's standard of a hot dog wrapper.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jog49 View Post
    I remember the good old days of NASCAR when "debris on the track" had to be a wrecked car and not today's standard of a hot dog wrapper.
    I would agree with your comment....I know why they do it, Mikey Waltrip spilled the beans a couple years ago, but it has nothing to do with who's winning or not winning, it has to do with closing up the field.. I don't like it, but I've seen worse things...

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudslinger47 View Post
    I would agree with your comment....I know why they do it, Mikey Waltrip spilled the beans a couple years ago, but it has nothing to do with who's winning or not winning, it has to do with closing up the field.. I don't like it, but I've seen worse things...
    Mud, there was a day when NASCAR extemporaneously would throw a yellow to help out a certain driver/team. I too, don't believe that is the case today. I don't believe NASCAR plays favorites like it once did say, 20-25 years ago. Favoritism was pretty blatant and obvious at that time but the racing media and social media spotlight is too bright and hot these days for that to be going on today. At least in a blatantly overt way.

    That said NASCAR will be scrutinized a good long time for what happened at Homestead regarding the "water bottle at the bottom of the track" caution. There were a lot of dirt track fans excited and pulling for Kyle Larson and the dirt track contingent don't forget.
    Last edited by CIRF; 11-25-2015 at 01:30 PM.

  7. #47
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    Kyle Larson will get his wins...they hyped the kid to much, way to much pressure....he isn't the first or the last to have a win escape him because of a yellow....

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudslinger47 View Post
    Kyle Larson will get his wins...they hyped the kid to much, way to much pressure....he isn't the first or the last to have a win escape him because of a yellow....
    Agree with everything except that they hyped Larson too much. If you look at his racing resume' of the 3 or 4 years leading up to his getting Montoya's ride he had done some extremely extraordinary things in various types of racecars. During those 3 or 4 years Larson was the real deal and when a driver runs as good as he did expectations naturally going to be very high.

    In regards to the yellow flag deal, it's a certainty that yellow flags at the closing stages of a race will preclude an outcome without a yellow in the past, the present and in the future. It's when the yellow is purely bogus that a bit more angst can be felt in losing a race because of it. These races are difficult enough to win without having an opportunity taken away for no apparent reason. A driver gets only so many chances in the course of a career.

  9. #49
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    It's to bad Kyle didn't get a chance to compete for the win at the end of the race. There is no doubt about it he was the entertaimnent of the race that day. He drove up against the wall all the way around the track where no one else did. I'm not so sure he could have gotten around Brad but, the unfortunate thing is we will never know. Thanks to NASCAR for throwing the yellow just so they could have some excitement at the end of the race for me that would have been more exciting to see if Kyle could have won the race or not.

  10. #50
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    Kyle was really good in sprint and sliver crown cars but a huge weight difference... they just needed to climb off for a year and let him get used to the weight...

  11. #51
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    I think if you put Larson in some decent equipment, he would've already won. I could be wrong but I don't really see Chase Elliott living up to the hype everyone is giving him.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudslinger47 View Post
    Kyle was really good in sprint and sliver crown cars but a huge weight difference... they just needed to climb off for a year and let him get used to the weight...
    I wouldn't question the theory that Larson could have benefited from another year in Xfinity but he showed all the signs of being ready to go Cup racing. In fact, his rookie year in Cup showed him to be mature beyond his years and experience. He surely didn't forget how to drive but he did have some life changing personal circumstance developments. Don't know if that had any effect on his performance but for sure it does effect the way some drivers go about driving the racecar. It's been said that Jeff Gordon was a bit different driver after he remarried and had children. In Larson's case, who knows.

    Just a side note on the Silver Crown/Cup car relationship. Granted a Silver Crown car only weighs around 1650 lbs. but I remember well hearing Jeff Gordon, Kenny Schrader and maybe even Stewart talk about how the Silver Crown cars can, in a lot of ways, be an indicator as to how well and how quickly a driver could adapt to a Cup car. Their reasoning, IIRC, is that the Silver Crown races are relatively long compared to a lot of other dirt car classes and the fuel load hanging off the back of the car makes it a totally different animal at the start of a 100 miler as opposed to the final 20 or 25 miles. The fuel load burning off of a Cup car has a similar effect on handling even though the cars are a universe apart. Also I remember one or more of those guys saying Silver Crown car control is more similar to a heavier fendered car than just about any other type of dirt car, including a dirt late model.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by A ron View Post
    I think if you put Larson in some decent equipment, he would've already won. I could be wrong but I don't really see Chase Elliott living up to the hype everyone is giving him.
    I agree with the Elliott stament , just look at dale jr. if it had not been for sr. he wouldn't be no where near where he is at today, just saying...............

  14. #54
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    One of the only off spring racers that could have matched his dads racing accomplishments would have been Davey Allison and part of that in my opinion was how Bobby made him do it made him work for.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by A ron View Post
    I think if you put Larson in some decent equipment, he would've already won. I could be wrong but I don't really see Chase Elliott living up to the hype everyone is giving him.
    I disagree with the Equipment statement, I think they have good stuff, but agree about Chase E. but they just need to give him a little time too...

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by drano View Post
    One of the only off spring racers that could have matched his dads racing accomplishments would have been Davey Allison and part of that in my opinion was how Bobby made him do it made him work for.
    I was at Davey,s house 2 weeks before he died. saw the helicopter sitting on a peer in front of his office. watched he and red farmer race at Talladega short track when he was 15. he was a great talent, but truth be known, red farmer had more to do with his success than bobby ever did. Bobby wasn't around much when Davey grew up, but red was.....good assessment drano, but I honestly think Davey would have far surpassed his dad, JMO

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudslinger47 View Post
    I disagree with the Equipment statement, I think they have good stuff, but agree about Chase E. but they just need to give him a little time too...
    You may be correct in your assumption that the Ganassi cars are as good as Penske, Gibbs and Hendrick but the results do not bear that out. Sterling Marlin once had what might have been a championship run going in the 40 car but injury took him out of contention and that was as close as any Ganassi team has ever been to a title. Unlike today, there was no special dispensations awarded for injured and bereaved drivers or ol' Sterling might have got a waiver or two and won the Cup title. Stranger things have happened.

    None of us have any way of knowing for sure how Ganassi equipment and staff measure up to the other teams that are winning races and championships. If past performance and results are any indication, especially of the 42 car, then I'd say Kyle might be doin' all it's possible to do with the car and crew he has.

  18. #58
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    Jamie has ran getter this year then prior years and Kyle ran very well last year and pretty OK this year... It seems to me they switched to Hendrick chassis with ERC motors, but I'll have to check on that for sure... Nope, I got that wrong, Hendrick motors but no idea who they get their chassis from or do they do that in-house?
    Last edited by mudslinger47; 11-26-2015 at 09:58 PM.

  19. #59
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    Cirf Sterling was injured during the wrong time of the year for the gimmick lol

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudslinger47 View Post
    Jamie has ran getter this year then prior years and Kyle ran very well last year and pretty OK this year... It seems to me they switched to Hendrick chassis with ERC motors, but I'll have to check on that for sure... Nope, I got that wrong, Hendrick motors but no idea who they get their chassis from or do they do that in-house?
    Thanks for doing the leg work on Ganassi's engine vendor. We know races can be won using Hendrick engines, see TSR.

    Ganassi has so many irons in the fire that it's a wonder he's as successful as he is in all of his racing endeavors. It's remarkable. His cars are front runners in Indy Car and the sporty cars and periodically show signs of greatness in NASCAR. I truly believe that if Chip concentrated exclusively on NASCAR Cup racing he'd have a juggernaut of a team.

    Quote Originally Posted by A ron View Post
    Cirf Sterling was injured during the wrong time of the year for the gimmick lol
    Yep, I reckon you're right again.

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