! Cirf ! Cirf ! Cirf !

[Raceready]

Good deal! He could run the 500 and race until the !st Martinsville race is over, and then rest his bad back for 3 months and then run for the title !

[CIRF]

When NASCAR puts a asterisk next to Busch's Championship, get back to us



and I'm not talkin about a Clayton Wetter photoshop.

The asterisk is there for those who understand that NASCAR, a once proud and prestigious championship, has become a sorry source of humor. NASCAR won't have an asterisk beside pee wee jr.'s name, but to most of the fans who remember when the championship wasn't a 10 race circle jerk with a guy winning this year that had to have the rules changed to accommodate him, that asterisk is very real.

The championship is most definitely tainted and to a certain degree illegitimate and all the excuses and rolleyes ain't ever gonna' change that.

NASCAR proved beyond a doubt this year what many have known for a long time and it was pee wee is just the icing on the cake! That's why he was my guy right down the line.

Rolleyes. LOL!!

[CIRF]

You know, I forgot about that old username, was it Powerful20 or something like that?

Clayton, it was Power 20 and now it's Power 14.

[mudslinger47]

Ya know, it gets a little tiring with your whining, Kyle won...and you don't have class enough to just leave it at that...I consider myself very fortunate that I'll never have the opportunity to meet you... Kid on the other hand would be a pleasure...

I would have been good with anyone of the four winning, the all worked hard with their respective teams to get to the final four, but you and your sour grapes just won't have any part of it...must suck to be you...

[oldfart50]

The asterisk is there for those who understand that NASCAR, a once proud and prestigious championship, has become a sorry source of humor. NASCAR won't have an asterisk beside pee wee jr.'s name, but to most of the fans who remember when the championship wasn't a 10 race circle jerk with a guy winning this year that had to have the rules changed to accommodate him, that asterisk is very real. The championship is most definitely tainted and to a certain degree illegitimate and all the excuses and rolleyes ain't ever gonna' change that. NASCAR proved beyond a doubt this year what many have known for a long time and it was pee wee is just the icing on the cake! That's why he was my guy right down the line. Rolleyes. LOL!!

Again, they did not change the rules. FYI NASCAR was just as fixed if not worse 20 years ago. They just hid it better. All those speedway races the 8 car won didn't happen with the same plate everyone else had to run. The 3 car was sucking air for years and years with NASCAR APPROVAL. It has always been a circle jerk...

[Raceready]

Again, they did not change the rules. FYI NASCAR was just as fixed if not worse 20 years ago. They just hid it better. All those speedway races the 8 car won didn't happen with the same plate everyone else had to run. The 3 car was sucking air for years and years with NASCAR APPROVAL. It has always been a circle jerk...

I have to agree with you there. How many races have we seen where everybody absolutely had to be drafting to keep up only to find out that there was one particular car that could pull right out of line and drive away as if had about 300 more horses than everyone else.

[kidrock]

Again, they did not change the rules. FYI NASCAR was just as fixed if not worse 20 years ago. They just hid it better. All those speedway races the 8 car won didn't happen with the same plate everyone else had to run. The 3 car was sucking air for years and years with NASCAR APPROVAL. It has always been a circle jerk...

And the stands where full and TV had good ratings and fans love it.

[CIRF]

Ya know, it gets a little tiring with your whining, Kyle won...and you don't have class enough to just leave it at that...I consider myself very fortunate that I'll never have the opportunity to meet you... Kid on the other hand would be a pleasure

I would have been good with anyone of the four winning, the all worked hard with their respective teams to get to the final four, but you and your sour grapes just won't have any part of it...must suck to be you...

...Awe mud, you seem to be butthurt, can I help? I just can't understand your displeasure. I said a long time ago that I really hoped that pee wee jr. won the championship. He did!!! I'm happy, you're happy! What are you getting so cranky about. And, I'm deeply hurt that you feel fortunate that you don't have to meet me.................NOT! Hehehehe!

Won't have any part of it? Say what? I've been more interested in this championship than probably the past 8 or 10 just because of this wonderful human interest story unfolding right before our eyes.

For the record, some days it really does suck to be me but today ain't one of those days 'cause I'm basking in the celebratory afterglow of seeing pee wee jr. win the championship! Come on mud, join me in a hearty long distance "HEL L YEA!!

Again, they did not change the rules. FYI NASCAR was just as fixed if not worse 20 years ago. They just hid it better. All those speedway races the 8 car won didn't happen with the same plate everyone else had to run. The 3 car was sucking air for years and years with NASCAR APPROVAL. It has always been a circle jerk...

Fart, I have to once again reluctantly agree with you, and that might be detrimental to both of our reputations! LOL! However, you're wrong about NASCAR changing the rules. The NASCAR genius' changed the rule that a driver had to attempt to qualify for every race to be eligible for the 10 race gimmick at the end of the season. What I really hope is the result of all of this nonsense is that a team decides to take a few weeks off during the season for a little R & R and still becomes eligible for the championship. Now that would be the ultimate scenario, don't ya'll think?

You're absolutely correct that things were manipulated 20 years ago and the beneficiaries were exactly the guys you mention and I can sight title and verse of more than a couple shady goin's on from that time period.

He!!, Smokey Yunick says in his autobiography that this manipulation was going on from the very beginning and Smokey was there and deeply involved in NASCAR at that time and knew what he was talking about.

Fart, if I've damaged your standing with mud and Power/TS Fan and a couple of others that love to hate on poor little ol' me by agreeing with you I'm really sorry. LOL!!

[TS FAN]

Every Nascar media outlet I have seen, has offer congrats to KB, said it was quite a comeback story, and well deserved. the only individual that seems to be crying about it, is the subject of this thread. Says he is the only one that knows Nascar, apparently. If you disagree with him, you get a childish like response. He cannot help himself. Also, I'm coming to doubt that the guy even has a job. It seems like all he does is post all over this board, and declares himself the resident expert. Now just watch the childish response I get back for this post. LOL

Trash Stewart, make some comment about power 20, make some comment about Chip G. Make some comment about trashing JG. That should about cover it/ yuk yuk
Oh yes, and my feelings are hurt. Forgot that one

[A ron]

Cirf isn't the only person. I have no problem with the waiver. I agree, Kyle made a heck of a comeback. He won by the rules. I have a problem with the point resetting. Not just this year, but since 2004. It's dumb that someone can miss the first 11 and win but someone else can miss the last 11 and not have a chance. It's also dumb that a driver could win the first 35, run 2nd at Homestead and lose to someone who ran 15th all year. I'm not really a 4 fan but the guy had 16 top 2 finishes. Nascar is like one big game, with 36 innings. Each inning has it's own unique set of rules, and it's own field(or track) that it's played on. There are superspeedways, cookie cutters, short tracks, and road courses. If the champion is decided only by how well they run at Homestead (a track like none of the others I might add), they are only focusing one inning of the game. It's like a baseball team only being good at batting. The only way to have the entire game count, is to have every race count the same. If only the last inning counts, why even play the rest?

[TS FAN]

The gimmick of the chase follows other sports. It is about ratings, and i understand it. It is like baseball letting a .500 team into post season and having them get hot and win. Football, and their wild card. All sports are craving an audience, and the old year long points race was not exciting enough. More often than not, there was no suspense at season's end. What system I favor doesn't matter, but I think that Kyle Busch is a great story of a comeback against great odds. Everyone connected with Nascar is rightfully giving him congrats on a job well done.

[oldfart50]

As soon as you accept it is a BAD TV show the better off you will feel about it. It is no longer about racing. It has always been crooked but it use to still be racing and you just had to beat NASCAR besides everyone else. The first nail in the coffin was started in 2003 when every make of car had to run a Ford roof. That was the start of the decline though people didn't see it at the time. Everyone loved the "Good Ole Boy" sport because they could relate. Indy car has always struggled because people didnt relate and it has always been too technical. NASCAR has become Indy Car set in a fixed Circus environment. You think its bad now, just wait until they franchise it and there are only 11 owners... Its coming very soon

[Highside Hustler25]

Every Nascar media outlet I have seen, has offer congrats to KB, said it was quite a comeback story, and well deserved. the only individual that seems to be crying about it, is the subject of this thread. Says he is the only one that knows Nascar, apparently. If you disagree with him, you get a childish like response. He cannot help himself. Also, I'm coming to doubt that the guy even has a job. It seems like all he does is post all over this board, and declares himself the resident expert. Now just watch the childish response I get back for this post. LOL

Trash Stewart, make some comment about power 20, make some comment about Chip G. Make some comment about trashing JG. That should about cover it/ yuk yuk
Oh yes, and my feelings are hurt. Forgot that one

Don't forget the trademark, 3rd grade girls, hehehehehe signature.

[25drtrkr]

I WISH, been a big 24 fan for 20 yrs now! I'm gonna try to stick with Chase and the 24 team. I was a big Bill Elliott fan, before Gordon came along. I'm a die hard Chevy fan even though Bill ran Fords...go figure! Theres not many Chevy drivers that I really like.

[25drtrkr]

He won it fair and square based on the current rules. No asterisk at all as everyone had the same opportunity.

Refresh my memeory.....Didn't Kyle have to get a "special exemption" from Nascar to qualify for the Chase? He won it according to their rules but it doesn't sit well with us traditionalists!

[drano]

I have to agree with you there. How many races have we seen where everybody absolutely had to be drafting to keep up only to find out that there was one particular car that could pull right out of line and drive away as if had about 300 more horses than everyone else.

Do you remember the 9 car making up 2 laps under green at Talladega and winning now that was pulling out of line with a little extra poney's and before this goofey I mean luckey dog thing.

[Raceready]

Do you remember the 9 car making up 2 laps under green at Talladega and winning now that was pulling out of line with a little extra poney's and before this goofey I mean luckey dog thing.

I remember that well. It was considered the greatest race that was ever run at the time. It was in a time when hot dog wrapper debris yellows weren't thrown in order to keep favorites from going a lap down. The cars were as fast as the teams could make them. Not the glorified equalized iroc type cars of today where overlooking a few thousands of an inch here or there with a rule could manipulate a win for those are selected to have a good run. The small town Elliott family team worked the hardest in the garage of any team often remaining several hours working on the car after everyone had gone home for the day. Ernie built a powerhouse of an engine and the boys figured out how to build the body more narrow than everyone else so it carved the wind better.

[CIRF]

Every Nascar media outlet I have seen, has offer congrats to KB, said it was quite a comeback story, and well deserved. the only individual that seems to be crying about it, is the subject of this thread. Says he is the only one that knows Nascar, apparently. If you disagree with him, you get a childish like response. He cannot help himself. Also, I'm coming to doubt that the guy even has a job. It seems like all he does is post all over this board, and declares himself the resident expert. Now just watch the childish response I get back for this post. LOL

Trash Stewart, make some comment about power 20, make some comment about Chip G. Make some comment about trashing JG. That should about cover it/ yuk yuk
Oh yes, and my feelings are hurt. Forgot that one

Still under you skin I see!! Right where I wanna' be. Literally LOL.

Don't forget the trademark, 3rd grade girls, hehehehehe signature.

Are you and Power 20/TS FAN the same guy? If so I love the snappy comebacks. You're good!! LOL!

[fastford]

Do you remember the 9 car making up 2 laps under green at Talladega and winning now that was pulling out of line with a little extra poney's and before this goofey I mean luckey dog thing.

yep, I was there and it was a thing of beauty , especially for us ford fans, however I think it was the beginning of the end. the chevy boys complained so much that nascar changed the rules, ie: restrictor plates. now some will say it was because of bobby Allison,s wreck , but I never bought that. LIKE oldfart said above, it started with a roof and now the final nail in the coffin is the computer and fuel injection. all these cars are cookie cutter cars and there performance can be controlled by nascar. how could any one know that the powers that be did not get together and say, man, JGR needs a win and wouldn't kyle bush coming back from such adversities to win the championship be a great ending to this year, so we will give them a computer at the beginning of the race with 20 extra hp in it. next year we need to take care of ole Jack Roush and the ford fans , so we will throw them a bone next year. like every one else on here, this is just my opinion, and I think nascar is in the survival mode and any thing is possible.

[CIRF]

Do you remember the 9 car making up 2 laps under green at Talladega and winning now that was pulling out of line with a little extra poney's and before this goofey I mean luckey dog thing.

I remember that well. It was considered the greatest race that was ever run at the time. It was in a time when hot dog wrapper debris yellows weren't thrown in order to keep favorites from going a lap down. The cars were as fast as the teams could make them. Not the glorified equalized iroc type cars of today where overlooking a few thousands of an inch here or there with a rule could manipulate a win for those are selected to have a good run. The small town Elliott family team worked the hardest in the garage of any team often remaining several hours working on the car after everyone had gone home for the day. Ernie built a powerhouse of an engine and the boys figured out how to build the body more narrow than everyone else so it carved the wind better.

I remember watching the race you guys speak of at Talladega way back in 1985. IIRC the 9 car had an oil fitting malfunction which caused the 2 lap deficit. I remember my Dad, who wasn't an Elliott fan, saying at the time that the race was one that would be cherished by history. Elliott says to this day that he's amazed that the engine stayed together.

At the time Bill was winning everything. I think Elliott won 11 races in '85 but didn't win the championship mostly because the 9 team didn't have a very good short track program at that time. Junior Johnson and Darrell Waltrip did and they took home the Winston Cup.

I remember 1985 a bit more vividly than some other seasons. My interest in NASCAR began when I was 8 or 9 years old and in '85, although still very young, I attended my first NASCAR race, the 1985 Daytona 500, and Elliott obviously spanked 'em in the 500. At that time I was fresh out of college and broke but somehow found enough cash to make the 1200 mile trip to Daytona for Speedweeks. 1985 began a personal February ritual and tradition that endured until 2006, although we haven't been to the 500 since about 1996. We did the twin qualifiers and dirt track thing from '96 on. So yes, 1985 and that epic performance by Bill at Talladega holds a lot of nostalgia and sentiment to us in spite of the fact that I was never a big Elliott fan.

The Elliott performance at Talladega is nearly universally regarded as the single most dominating performance by a driver, car and team in the history of NASCAR.

From the beginning of his career all the way 'till today Bill Elliott exemplifies humble dignity, a virtuous character trait sorely missing from many drivers, and sports figures as a whole, in today's world.