New Rocket car???

[late96]

We've done that, not smoked the big dollar team, but we show up every week with our car on open trailer, buy used tires from big teams, and are proud to win now and than whether be heat race or feature

[let-r-eat]

I don't see it near as much nowadays but I do still see it happen every once in a while.

[catgo22]

Let-r-eat said: I like to see the guy with the home-made trailer, towing it with a 30 year old van, driving an old car he bought off some rich team who thought it was junk, who builds his own engines and shocks and stuff and just smokes that high dollar junk.

I'd say Kevin Weaver here in central Illinois is close to that. He beats some awful good cars and drivers on a small budget.

[dirtMAN007]

Let-r-eat said: I like to see the guy with the home-made trailer, towing it with a 30 year old van, driving an old car he bought off some rich team who thought it was junk, who builds his own engines and shocks and stuff and just smokes that high dollar junk.

I'd say Kevin Weaver here in central Illinois is close to that. He beats some awful good cars and drivers on a small budget.

Brain grey ...................that's who it is !!!!

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Let-r-eat said: I like to see the guy with the home-made trailer, towing it with a 30 year old van, driving an old car he bought off some rich team who thought it was junk, who builds his own engines and shocks and stuff and just smokes that high dollar junk.

I'd say Kevin Weaver here in central Illinois is close to that. He beats some awful good cars and drivers on a small budget.

Kevin Weaver is sponsored by corporate Jimmy John's. Not just a local Jimmy John's, the actual Jimmy John's guy/corporation.

[oldfart50]

Why do new cars cost 70% more than they did 10 years ago? I can think of nothing else that has increased that much in price over the last 10 years. Someone help me out here please.

[hucktyson]

It's called " juice " lots of juice

[turnleftandgasit]

Kevin Weaver is sponsored by corporate Jimmy John's. Not just a local Jimmy John's, the actual Jimmy John's guy/corporation.

While you are correct about it being from corporate, it is not a national level deal.

[SuperEight]

Why do new cars cost 70% more than they did 10 years ago? I can think of nothing else that has increased that much in price over the last 10 years. Someone help me out here please.

Its more like 30%, but its a lot and it has to do with several factors like inflation, devaluation of our currency and globalization. Not to mention more and more light weight parts and shock packages that cost as much as a nice used car. Try buying a new truck, they have increased at least that much too.

[oldfart50]

In 2004 complete rollers were less that $20k. I sold a lot of them...

[hanginitout]

Its more like 30%, but its a lot and it has to do with several factors like inflation, devaluation of our currency and globalization. Not to mention more and more light weight parts and shock packages that cost as much as a nice used car. Try buying a new truck, they have increased at least that much too.

I believe the crates have a lot to do with it, they were the futrue of racing.. GM and fastrac and other sactioning bodies are making it $$$. Racer are spending it to go faster, IE light weight parts shocks. which is not all bad because i believe racer have contributed some much to technology its not funny.....Racer are very resourcful... I do believe they need to bring back the saturday night home built motor if you want, and racer can do that when the class starts to faulter the tracks will look another way to bring cars in... I was a beliver in the crates at first.. But now see it different... I believe they can set the rules to as such if you want to build your own motor you can.... You can rebuild them cheeper than what they want you to build them for, yourself. JMO.....

[fastford]

I believe the crates have a lot to do with it, they were the futrue of racing.. GM and fastrac and other sactioning bodies are making it $$$. Racer are spending it to go faster, IE light weight parts shocks. which is not all bad because i believe racer have contributed some much to technology its not funny.....Racer are very resourcful... I do believe they need to bring back the saturday night home built motor if you want, and racer can do that when the class starts to faulter the tracks will look another way to bring cars in... I was a beliver in the crates at first.. But now see it different... I believe they can set the rules to as such if you want to build your own motor you can.... You can rebuild them cheeper than what they want you to build them for, yourself. JMO.....

this is what I said all along, the crate engine was supposed to save the racer money over all and be for the less funded beginners, yea right, the racers with plenty of funding are gone spend it to win, if not on the engine , then elsewhere to get an advantage. Be honest with yourself, when was the last time you say a crate racer pull in with an open trailer and an older car with old style oil shocks and a box stock crate engine win a race????? I do think the theory in the beginning was ok, but I also knew that a lack of policing and series catering to these specialized parts suppliers would destroy the original purpose of this class.

[Josh Bayko]

this is what I said all along, the crate engine was supposed to save the racer money over all and be for the less funded beginners, yea right, the racers with plenty of funding are gone spend it to win, if not on the engine , then elsewhere to get an advantage. Be honest with yourself, when was the last time you say a crate racer pull in with an open trailer and an older car with old style oil shocks and a box stock crate engine win a race????? I do think the theory in the beginning was ok, but I also knew that a lack of policing and series catering to these specialized parts suppliers would destroy the original purpose of this class.

The ONLY thing crate sanctions EVER promised was reduced engine costs. The whole notion that it was supposed to be "affordable" racing is something that people took completely out of context. They're late models, which are already prohibitively expensive to an awful lot of racers before you add in the engine costs. The fact they they allowed blueprinting to sealed motors should have been an instant clue that the class wasn't exactly "affordable".

If the class was supposed to actually be "affordable" racing, Blueprinting, the exotic shocks and lightweight rears and super special crate carbs and headers would have been outlawed from the jump.

Another thing people fail to realize about crate late model racing. the class wasn't developed with the racer in mind. It was developed with the promoter in mind. The line of thinking was "You can have late models, but you don't have to pay a late model purse."

[fastford]

I didn't figure it would take you long to chime in, we've done this before , and down here it was pushed just as I described, a beginner and affordable alternative. you keep believing the crate is the best thing since sliced bread and I will keep believing there a fad....

[hanginitout]

The ONLY thing crate sanctions EVER promised was reduced engine costs. The whole notion that it was supposed to be "affordable" racing is something that people took completely out of context. They're late models, which are already prohibitively expensive to an awful lot of racers before you add in the engine costs. The fact they they allowed blueprinting to sealed motors should have been an instant clue that the class wasn't exactly "affordable".

If the class was supposed to actually be "affordable" racing, Blueprinting, the exotic shocks and lightweight rears and super special crate carbs and headers would have been outlawed from the jump.

Another thing people fail to realize about crate late model racing. the class wasn't developed with the racer in mind. It was developed with the promoter in mind. The line of thinking was "You can have late models, but you don't have to pay a late model purse."

The sactioning bodies are'nt going to outlaw all that stuff, like blue printing. the engine builder have to pay so much a year to them just so they are an approved builders. headers shocks, carbs, cause they are getting promotion money from tjhose companies, just like the hard hoosier tire. that was suppose to last several races. some get 4 new ones a nights. They sold it, as a begining racers class and affordable class then paid large purses to get the guys to pay the fees every year to be able to compete,, and so forth came the davenports ,and all the others.... Good marketing for them... Not the little guy in mind as sold...... And don't get me wrong no form of racing is cheep..

[Josh Bayko]

I didn't figure it would take you long to chime in, we've done this before , and down here it was pushed just as I described, a beginner and affordable alternative. you keep believing the crate is the best thing since sliced bread and I will keep believing there a fad....

Where did I say crates were "the best thing" ever? If anything, I described the class as an absolute farce. They have done more to hurt racing than actually help it. They've more or less destroyed the steel block and super late model classes in a lot of places. Up my way, lots of folks have realized that the class isn't all it's cracked up to be and are moving up to supers.

[hanginitout]

Where did I say crates were "the best thing" ever? If anything, I described the class as an absolute farce. They have done more to hurt racing than actually help it. They've more or less destroyed the steel block and super late model classes in a lot of places. Up my way, lots of folks have realized that the class isn't all it's cracked up to be and are moving up to supers.

Amen..... A lot more need to realize,,, and if not supers to mods....This class at your local saturday night track, guys tear up more stuff than mods ever did... They no if your not upfront you have no chance of winning...... So its all out in the heats and feature, to get to the front....even if you have 5th place car.....

[fastford]

Where did I say crates were "the best thing" ever? If anything, I described the class as an absolute farce. They have done more to hurt racing than actually help it. They've more or less destroyed the steel block and super late model classes in a lot of places. Up my way, lots of folks have realized that the class isn't all it's cracked up to be and are moving up to supers.

I apologize, I think I got you mixed up with some one else from a wile back that was a huge crate supporter .

[PushinTheLimit]

Seems like there is so much hate toward the crates. I know for a very small operation that I have, no way I could afford to run supers at this point in time (but certainly would like to move up to them in the next 2-3 years). We don't have a local track that runs supers on a weekly basis so it's either run crates or steelheads if you want to run late models. Closest one is about 2 hours away and doesn't pay well at all. Our tracks for the most part combine crates and steelheads and are fairly competitive with one another. The upside is that we have a couple good crate series around that pays pretty good and the fields are very competitive. If you run good in them, you've done something.

I don't think it's a beginner class anymore (we have a Sportsman class around here that's more like that) but it's been good for a guy like me that had never driven on dirt and get my feet wet before I moved up a division.

[latemodel86]

Back when I raced, we ran the crate class. I agree with both sides of the argument concerning how crates have helped and not helped late model racing as a whole. It was definitely the only way we could race a late model but, obviously, we were up against guys with ten times the financial budget that we had, making it pointless, as we all know it to be most of the time, if you are a budget racer.

I read an article a few months back where Tim McCreadie gave his opinion on spec/economical racing. One of his points was that the more you try to cut costs on engines, shocks, tires, etc. the more expensive you actually make it. Thus, you will have to buy multiples of those items, in order to achieve the performance you could have gotten from the "open" items if that makes sense.

I would love to get back into a racecar and after not racing for 3 years; the itch has gotten worse. My goal would be to at least get back to crates, but with these high budget teams running crates and with all of the advancements to the technological side of it all, there is no way in h e l l I could even be serious about being competitive or even racing it enough for it to serve its purpose. Even the street stocks are becoming the next "crates." The same thing happened to kart racing 4-6 years ago with the clone engines overtaking the flathead classes. Bottom line to this thread, "Money... If you do not have it or access to it, it is nearly impossible to be competitive, and is not getting any cheaper." The days of pure talent overshadowing the quality of your machine are dwindling just because the money makes such a difference in these new parts. I still think that engineering some little differences into these cars to gain an advantage, will always be around, as Rumley and Davenport showed us this year. However, the budget racer cannot afford to buy it or will most likely not come up with this on their own. The only way, is to use resources and test those theories, which also goes back to needing money to do these tests. Just my 2 cents