Lucas Oil Technical Bulletin.

[davis2902]

Why is it so hard for people to differentiate between a "purchased" off the shelf $20,000 shock package and a $700 engineered lever package. If cost was the factor the cheaper device would not be banned. Look at this for what it is, a sanctioning body is trying to level the playing field to increase competition. Sound familiar? Does it work? The powers that be are once again bowing down or should I say "bowyering" down to a certain group.

[00Hdmn]

The part that bothers me the most is that if you have a new idea you have to summit the idea to Lucas for approval before using it too race. As long as the new ideas are within the rules why the he!! should they have to ask for approval. People think that this is going to lower the cost but in fact it will just make the bigger teams spend more money on testing and engineers than ever before trying to get a leg up. The local guys still wont be able too and it will be the same. The problem happened a long time ago when Chassis and motors starting going through the roof on price. If you don't have a big bore 450 your screwed.

[pink floyd]

Why is it so hard for people to differentiate between a "purchased" off the shelf $20,000 shock package and a $700 engineered lever package. If cost was the factor the cheaper device would not be banned. Look at this for what it is, a sanctioning body is trying to level the playing field to increase competition. Sound familiar? Does it work? The powers that be are once again bowing down or should I say "bowyering" down to a certain group.

very good post

[pink floyd]

The part that bothers me the most is that if you have a new idea you have to summit the idea to Lucas for approval before using it too race. As long as the new ideas are within the rules why the he!! should they have to ask for approval. People think that this is going to lower the cost but in fact it will just make the bigger teams spend more money on testing and engineers than ever before trying to get a leg up. The local guys still wont be able too and it will be the same. The problem happened a long time ago when Chassis and motors starting going through the roof on price. If you don't have a big bore 450 your screwed.

yes, the pre-approval process is a bunch of crap.

[Kromulous]

12.21, section E contains info on any telemetry.

If they were gonna go this far, they should of just banned bump stops. As well add a rule, Wide-bore engines add 25lbs infront of the engine plate.

Outside of that i think what they have done is going to save money.

Only thing i dont like is the shock must connect to the BC, i like running the dummy shock on a clamp bracket sometimes.

[jrkracing54]

I have heard this. But also heard they were on cars at Charlotte?

You are probably right MB Racer. I was just stating what I had read. I'm sure they were on the fence at that point waiting to see what Lucas was going to do so I would not be surprised if they let some things slide through tech instead of pissing off a bunch of Lucas cars that came to race. John 1*

[jcotton02]

Sure the mounting device itself is not that expensive. But how many keyboard racers on here know what the shock package costs to make it work. figure it out you might be surprised to see what your defending.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Sure the mounting device itself is not that expensive. But how many keyboard racers on here know what the shock package costs to make it work. figure it out you might be surprised to see what your defending.

I would say only Kevin Rumley knows, but it is just a jri shock. Maybe a 1300 series afco would do?

[hotshoe65s]

What you people don't understand is that you have to take the intellectual costs into account on this stuff. Yeah the device might not cost a lot, but to do the testing and figure it out it requires data aquisition and an engineer to really figure everything out. So with rumley quiting his job and focusing on the dirt late model that's an additional 60 to 80 thousand he spent to do what he did. For other teams to catch up and get ahead they would have to hire engineers on a part time or full time basis.


But it's whatever. I hope WoO doesn't make any new rules so all you complainers can go race with them and get beat by Richards with his team of engineers and Davenport with Kevin.
I'll make the bold prediction now that Lucas still has the better year next year.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

What you people don't understand is that you have to take the intellectual costs into account on this stuff. Yeah the device might not cost a lot, but to do the testing and figure it out it requires data aquisition and an engineer to really figure everything out. So with rumley quiting his job and focusing on the dirt late model that's an additional 60 to 80 thousand he spent to do what he did. For other teams to catch up and get ahead they would have to hire engineers on a part time or full time basis.


But it's whatever. I hope WoO doesn't make any new rules so all you complainers can go race with them and get beat by Richards with his team of engineers and Davenport with Kevin.
I'll make the bold prediction now that Lucas still has the better year next year.

I think a go pro should get you in the ballpark. Engineers will get their shocks better than I can buy. The engineer argument is a non starter because they ain't going anywhere.

[grt74]

like it or not the nascar boys are trickling down because of all the freedom in the dirt cars,its not going away,its only just begun,its fun and innovative to them

[Crossbones]

Can some explain exactly what the new nose pieces mean? There already was a "stock nose" rule.

[zeroracing]

The truth is a top team that has the $$$ for an engineer will get one, and they will use data acquisition and make the car faster. Regardless of the rules, in fact I contend a thick rule book makes many small gains more important, thus the need for an engineer to get you those small gains.

An engineer will cost a team probably closer to $150,000-$200,000+ if they are going to really use one. You must pay salary, benefits, 401k, they won't leave the office without it. Then you must buy software, data acquisition equipment, rent track time to use them etc... The real cost of an engineer is all of that. most teams cannot afford that added expense without immediate returns. Most of them 99% won't turn wrenches in the dirt on Saturday night either they want their time off for their family.

[Drop Shock]

Can some explain exactly what the new nose pieces mean? There already was a "stock nose" rule.

A lot of drivers like Davenport, Richards, Bloomquist and others have been flattening out the right front elephant ear on the nose. You can look at JD's car this year and see that the left side ear was popped way up in the air while the right side one just rolled off the side of the fender. They do it to get more air to the spoiler. Don't really think it's that much of an issue.

[zyoung25]

I think a go pro should get you in the ballpark. Engineers will get their shocks better than I can buy. The engineer argument is a non starter because they ain't going anywhere.

I remember Pierce having a go pro on the LR of his car during the n/s. A few weeks later they had a new car, around world 100 time, which is now the platinum car. Should we ask how he done with that car?

[25drtrkr]

Sure the mounting device itself is not that expensive. But how many keyboard racers on here know what the shock package costs to make it work. figure it out you might be surprised to see what your defending.

According to my very reliable source, its $800.

[Josh Bayko]

I still don't understand how people think making the box in which racers can work smaller and more restrictive will save anybody money. If anything, it's going to have racers spending more money for smaller gains. It happens in every form of racing, and has since the first time folks decided to race cars. You think one engineer was a problem? Wait until everybody is paying for one to try and beat the system.

[mopar92]

So here is a dumb question. What happens when everybody has one of these contraptions on the left rear. Now everybody has it, we are back to square 1. This was a short term gain. It was either going to be outlawed or replicated. Let's just say it was mass produced and everybody has one now... Where's the advantage? People acting like its the end of the world here because a smart innovative guy got a part outlawed.
As for the rules, those were written with 8 guys at a bar it seems. Not much logic in the verbiage or context. Yikes.

[hotshoe65s]

I still don't understand how people think making the box in which racers can work smaller and more restrictive will save anybody money. If anything, it's going to have racers spending more money for smaller gains. It happens in every form of racing, and has since the first time folks decided to race cars. You think one engineer was a problem? Wait until everybody is paying for one to try and beat the system.

I'm tired of arguing about this, so I'm going to say I'm neutral for the rules. It might be bad, it might be good. I don't know, and nobody will know until we see it play out.

But to answer your question I seen a guy on Facebook describe it very well. So here is the logic (albeit right or wrong):
With the setup box a lot smaller, everyone will be fairly close on setups. Big teams will spend lots of money to get shocks better and go faster. But because the box they are working in is so small, the gains available are very small as well. To the point where the gains per $$$$ is very very low. So now you have the big guys with their shocks tuned really well, eventually the shock manufacturers will catch up. Then you have regional guys with the same shot or at least a decent shot at succeeding as the big guys who spent all that money. So you can hire engineers, test with DAQ, and do all the fine tuning you want. But the gains will be minimal, and the guy who didn't have the money for all that will still be competitive if he hits his setup just right.

[latemodel86]

So here is a dumb question. What happens when everybody has one of these contraptions on the left rear. Now everybody has it, we are back to square 1. This was a short term gain. It was either going to be outlawed or replicated. Let's just say it was mass produced and everybody has one now... Where's the advantage? People acting like its the end of the world here because a smart innovative guy got a part outlawed.
As for the rules, those were written with 8 guys at a bar it seems. Not much logic in the verbiage or context. Yikes.

Good point. I think though that if it was not outlawed and 2-3 years from now it was a "standard/common" setup that every dirt late model had, it would open the door to new innovations and allow people to develop setups and setup configurations. It would possibly allow people to learn and create new ideas with other areas of the car and make more adjustments available. Which brings up a new topic, do we even need more adjustments to these cars? Like there is not enough already. lol Seriously though, I feel that this rule change will make a major difference in how late models develop in the next few years. However, if Lucas and WoO/UMP are the only ones to outlaw the "Rumley device", will we still continue to see it ran at other events across the country and develop the chassis/suspension like I stated above. If that were to happen, will the top guys running the national touring events become at a disadvantage at a non-national event, because those not running the national events, are working on further developing their programs with new innovations to the chassis and suspension components. Then, would we see those guys go away from the national events to compete at other races? Sorry to ramble on and hopefully I made some sense. I tend to overthink things...lol