Blankenship story coming up on 60 minutes.

[vande07]

Tell me more about Maytag getting higher wages now. That plant was moved to a union shop in Galesburg Il. and closed and moved to Mexico now. The move to Illinois was just to shed retirement responsibilities. They knew it was ending up south of the border anyway. If there wasn't a union in Iowa, they could have sent it directly to Mexico

How about all the Iowa and Illinois, John Deere jobs going to Mexico and Russia. No non union shop can match the wages they are paying there.

Today's world moves faster than ever before, yet unions move like molasses at accepting change. Until Unions realize that they have to be more adaptable, they will continue to see jobs disappear at a high rate. And to be quite honest, we (as parents and citizens) don't help our cause to keep them here either when we vote for a government that believes 100% of our population is college material (and we also all believe that our kids are too). By doing so, we don't have a workforce available for those jobs.

Our country needs laborers, garbage men/women, construction workers, police, firefighters, etc., etc.. The problem is that when 90% of a graduating class in high school is going on to college to get a degree, all of a sudden there are no people to take those jobs as they are "overqualified" or have been told since birth by us (their parents) that "I don't want you to have to work like a dog like I did my entire life, go to college and get an office job". Manufacturing Jobs are leaving America because of us, not the companies. We have taken their workforce away...

[W2Racing09]

Today's world moves faster than ever before, yet unions move like molasses at accepting change. Until Unions realize that they have to be more adaptable, they will continue to see jobs disappear at a high rate. And to be quite honest, we (as parents and citizens) don't help our cause to keep them here either when we vote for a government that believes 100% of our population is college material (and we also all believe that our kids are too). By doing so, we don't have a workforce available for those jobs.

Our country needs laborers, garbage men/women, construction workers, police, firefighters, etc., etc.. The problem is that when 90% of a graduating class in high school is going on to college to get a degree, all of a sudden there are no people to take those jobs as they are "overqualified" or have been told since birth by us (their parents) that "I don't want you to have to work like a dog like I did my entire life, go to college and get an office job". Manufacturing Jobs are leaving America because of us, not the companies. We have taken their workforce away...

I agree 100% that we have taken away the workforce -- but the other issue is the pay. I'm not saying that the work is deserving of much more money (manufacturing does not pay too bad in fact) but the cost of everything from cars to houses has gone up so much that you almost need an office job in order to ever get that stuff.

My brother recently moved in with me, he is from Maine and had just been laid off from a dead end job as a mechanic at Pep Boys. He was going to college but couldn't survive on his own so had to get a full time job and a part time job and didn't have time left to finish his degree -- so he is about a semester away from an Auto Tech degree. He moved here (PA) and got a few more dead end jobs making $8-$10/hr working on cars. Eventually he found a job manufacturing windows and doors for Pella. He is thrilled -- he honestly never thought it would be possible for him to make $13/hr in his life (sadly) let alone get 18-20 hrs of overtime every week on top of that. I was thinking it is a good job for him, but there is no way I could survive and have the stuff I have and want on that pay. People want houses, they want cars and they want other things (race cars for instance). If you are making $40k a year you are going to struggle to have that stuff. I guess I'm trying to say yeah the workforce left but the problem is much deeper. Costs of things have gone up much more than the cost of inflation. A normal house now costs about $150k -- and 20 years ago it was closer to $100k. Back in the heyday of American Manufacturing the wages were not much less than they were now -- but everything else was a lot less. People feel like they need to get an office job to keep up.

[Bubstr]

I have news for you. That office job is going away also. With all these jobs, requiring a degree and Corps unwilling to compensate for the cost of that degree. Their solution is work visa and out sourcing. Seems degrees don't cost as much in India.

Ross P had it right about NAFTA. A big Sucking sound from the south. But he was a nut job. LOL Ron Paul warned about Banking, Military spending and deficit spending But he was a nut job too. Now we have Trump calling a halt to immigration , Fair trade deals, that we get the short end of the stick and his own party labeled him as a nut job already. Well sounds familiar.!!!!

[Barbecueboy]

Just about every non union employer out there has some kind of 401k or other investment package for retirement. Or, you know, you can build your own retirement portfolio and have complete control, which is a lot better than having somebody else tell you what THEY'RE doing with YOUR money.

Early entry for post of the year...........

But expecting someone to plan and manage their own wealth or retirement isn't a" THING" anymore is it?????

[Barbecueboy]

Ok but what's your excuse?

My excuse??????

Guess it's my name isn't D Tidrow, you?

[Clayton_Wetter]

Hate to disagree with you on this, but Unions have ZERO to do with wages in non-union shops.

I'll give an example, we have 2 companies in my immediate area that do the same exact type of work (welding, large machinery building). They BOTH pay well over $20 per hour + benefits for most skilled workers. NEITHER are Union or have ever been Union. The closest Union job is well over 40 minutes away and pays LESS per hour and has less benefits.

Competition for employees is what drives up wages, not unions. if anything, Unions keep wages down as it has to be bargained every so many years so Steve who makes $20 an hour will get a guaranteed $0.50 an hour wage increase every 2 years (even if he's a horrible worker and does nothing), whereas Joe who runs circles around Steve and gets more work and productivity done doesn't get rewarded for his hard work (he gets that same $0.50 per hour wage increase every 2 years.

Unions basically are the "socialism" that everyone seems to hate. Unions fight for everyone to get exactly the same thing instead of hard work and dedication by employees being what gets them bigger raises than the guy just putting in his time standing next to him.

Plus, to top it off, Unions get the "union dues" from everyone and usually do zilch to actually help out the workers (a community close to me lost a Whirlpool Plant (formerly Maytag) because of the short-sightedness of the union over years and years. they fought tooth and nail to ensure that Maytag never ever upgraded equipment to build their machines and when they sold out to Whirlpool, it was an easy decision to close the plant. The equipment was so out-dated that it was wayyyyy cheaper to close it and move to a new location or build the machines at another factory than it was to retro-fit the existing one. The factory they moved the volume to was non-union and paid higher wages than the one they closed.

This post has my "SEAL OF APPROVAL"!!!

[Barbecueboy]

Union members are overpaid and underworked.............it's the mission statement.

Sorry Tiddy

[W2Racing09]

I have news for you. That office job is going away also. With all these jobs, requiring a degree and Corps unwilling to compensate for the cost of that degree. Their solution is work visa and out sourcing. Seems degrees don't cost as much in India.

Ross P had it right about NAFTA. A big Sucking sound from the south. But he was a nut job. LOL Ron Paul warned about Banking, Military spending and deficit spending But he was a nut job too. Now we have Trump calling a halt to immigration , Fair trade deals, that we get the short end of the stick and his own party labeled him as a nut job already. Well sounds familiar.!!!!

Fortunately for me I don't have to worry about outsourcing.. or at least I hope not. When the federal government starts outsourcing then I think we will all have bigger problems than worrying about our jobs. Good post though.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Bubstr]

Fortunately for me I don't have to worry about outsourcing.. or at least I hope not. When the federal government starts outsourcing then I think we will all have bigger problems than worrying about our jobs. Good post though.

Thanks,
Jeff.

Maybe you should look into the recent contracts with Air Bus for military aircraft or a Oriental construction co to re do the Golden Gate Bridge. Like it or not, it has come down to every US worker competing with $3.00 an hour labor. As long as they keep raising the immigration quotas and turning their back on illegal immigration, We as a whole are on the loosing end of this fight.

Still the union wasn't at fault in these mine disasters. If any fault at all, it was because they weren't strong enough to fight the corruption that allowed these disasters. I still want to know when they will give time to the inspectors and their bosses for letting this happen. One year isn't fair punishment for manslaughter.

[Josh Bayko]

Early entry for post of the year...........

But expecting someone to plan and manage their own wealth or retirement isn't a" THING" anymore is it?????

It really isn't a thing anymore, but I don't know that it ever really was a thing. Most people are completely comfortable letting somebody else take care of it for them.

[Mcklovin85..]

[QUOTE=Barbecueboy;1999883]Union members are overpaid and underworked.............it's the mission statement.I certainly know way more people without Union cards that this statement falls under... For example a very close friend of mine, he works for a very large bank, makes 120k a year, gets every holiday known to man off in a calendar year not to mention his gobs of sick time and paid vacation, and all he does is send me you tube videos and junk email during all working hours of the day.... And certainly doesn't have a union card in his pocket....

[Barbecueboy]

[QUOTE=Mcklovin85..;2000141]

Union members are overpaid and underworked.............it's the mission statement.I certainly know way more people without Union cards that this statement falls under... For example a very close friend of mine, he works for a very large bank, makes 120k a year, gets every holiday known to man off in a calendar year not to mention his gobs of sick time and paid vacation, and all he does is send me you tube videos and junk email during all working hours of the day.... And certainly doesn't have a union card in his pocket....

That's a true statement, but I bet when he walks out into the lobby and sees where somebody dropped something on the floor he probably reaches down to pick it up instead of calling his subordinate to call his subordinate to call his subordinate to write up a work order to pick it up.

[Bubstr]

Union members are overpaid and underworked.............it's the mission statement.

Sorry Tiddy

Most that would say this, never mined coal, Poured Casting at a union foundry or a punch press or welded or metal finished, trying to keep up with a assembly line. Work any of those jobs and it will change your mind real quick. Especially if they are incentive hourly pay. They are heavy loads, hard and hot days that will send the average man home with his tail between his legs. You guys read this on the internet and think it's true.For every one that has that Cush job, there are 10 that go home Hot, tired and sweaty with coal dust or rust in their underwear. Try a union steelworkers job, they will show you what hard work is. They work darned hard for a living, everywhere but on those anti union blogs. Do you really think these mine workers that lost their lives, didn't work hard at a risky job? SMH at people that never got the experience of working in the real world.

[Mcklovin85..]

[QUOTE=Barbecueboy;2000153]

That's a true statement, but I bet when he walks out into the lobby and sees where somebody dropped something on the floor he probably reaches down to pick it up instead of calling his subordinate to call his subordinate to call his subordinate to write up a work order to pick it up.

In response to your statement, it would have been my buddy who dropped it in the first place and was to lazy to pick it up himself. The first year guy making 80k would have picked it up on his way in after he just got done with breakfast, a round of golf and lunch at the strip club with the boss above my buddy.. Boss says, "come with me kid, were gonna teach you the ropes, and do me a favor be sure to pick the Starbucks cup off the floor when you walk in, we want things elegant around here"

[Barbecueboy]

Most that would say this, never mined coal, Poured Casting at a union foundry or a punch press or welded or metal finished, trying to keep up with a assembly line. Work any of those jobs and it will change your mind real quick. Especially if they are incentive hourly pay. They are heavy loads, hard and hot days that will send the average man home with his tail between his legs. You guys read this on the internet and think it's true.For every one that has that Cush job, there are 10 that go home Hot, tired and sweaty with coal dust or rust in their underwear. Try a union steelworkers job, they will show you what hard work is. They work darned hard for a living, everywhere but on those anti union blogs. Do you really think these mine workers that lost their lives, didn't work hard at a risky job? SMH at people that never got the experience of working in the real world.

Not sure where you are going with that working in the real world comment but all I will add to it is that a lot of folks work very hard in the real world , do back breaking work or handle mega stressful situations in the real world, make great money in the real world and not have to pay one red cent to a union shop to make decisions for them......

[Barbecueboy]

[QUOTE=Mcklovin85..;2000162]

In response to your statement, it would have been my buddy who dropped it in the first place and was to lazy to pick it up himself. The first year guy making 80k would have picked it up on his way in after he just got done with breakfast, a round of golf and lunch at the strip club with the boss above my buddy.. Boss says, "come with me kid, were gonna teach you the ropes, and do me a favor be sure to pick the Starbucks cup off the floor when you walk in, we want things elegant around here"

First year Union guy making 80k a year??? Thanks for making my point.

[Mcklovin85..]

[QUOTE=Barbecueboy;2000173]

First year Union guy making 80k a year??? Thanks for making my point.

I was meaning the first year guy at the bank... Not Union guy... Most first year Apprentices make 50%-75% of top scale...

[Barbecueboy]

[QUOTE=Mcklovin85..;2000181]

I was meaning the first year guy at the bank... Not Union guy... Most first year Apprentices make 50%-75% of top scale...

i assume that's true, but a first year guy that produces should make as much or more than a 20 year Union veteran that does not........

I guess that's one of my biggest beefs with the whole thing.........I'm never a fan of tenure based pay scales unless they are also somehow tied in to productivity and results along with the tenure.

When someone stops producing, and just shows up for work for a check is when they need to have their attitude and work ethics adjusted.............and most union shops that I know of have negotiated that right out of the equation.

If the 20 year guy is producing and his pay is commensurate with his results and level of expertise then I have zero problem in him making 50/75 percent more than the first year guy.......after all, that's how it normally happens in the real non Union world.

[Illtsate32]

Unions are here to make sure the working man can take his family to disneyland too...not just the scabby company owners....

[Barbecueboy]

unions of today have outlived their usefulness..........early on they were a necessity, like pay phones.