Fire Suppression Systems

[Matt49]

I think it's time this discussion was started here in the tech section. The reality is that many of the tracks that many of us attend may not be prepared for a worst case scenario...as if we even know what that could be. That being said, what can we as racers do to help ourselves? In the past, I've heard the argument that fire suppression systems could be counterproductive...as in creating additional distractions, breathing issues, etc. to a driver that needs to be focused on evacuation. But in the case where evacuation is impossible and the abilities of the track fire crew are limited, what can we do to help ourselves?
Looking into this, it appears the chemical of choice now is Dupont FE36. Is that the best and are there any unintended negatives to using this or any other chemical? Many of these systems are setup to provide outlets in different areas. Where should they be and how should we orient them for maximum protection? They tout the option of have something in the engine compartment but my gut tells me that a ruptured fuel cell would be a bigger concern. Killing the fire at the source of fuel seems more important than killing the source of heat....again...I don't know the answer which is why I'm starting this thread.
And then the mounting location of the bottle itself becomes a bit problematic. We just don't have much room in these cars. So what makes the most sense? Is a 10 pound bottle "overkill"? I a 5 pound bottle enough?
Let's take a serious look at this. I don't have the answers and I'm hoping that some other racers have experience with some products and applications that might help us all. I look at this stuff and see systems for $500. My wife would prefer I spend it on something that works safety-wise over buying tires next month. I'm sure we all have women in our lives that would argue the same. And given the recent tragedy, it is very hard to argue against them.

[Lizardracing]

I assume this thread is pointed too Charlie Floyd's ultimate sacrifice to the racing gods. Do anyone know how or why the fuels spillage occurred? Was there anything that could have been done that would have helped prevent the fuel from spilling? If anything good has to come out of this than at least people are talking about ways to increase the safety in their own cars. Too bad it's after a crises though.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I assume this thread is pointed too Charlie Floyd's ultimate sacrifice to the racing gods. Do anyone know how or why the fuels spillage occurred? Was there anything that could have been done that would have helped prevent the fuel from spilling? If anything good has to come out of this than at least people are talking about ways to increase the safety in their own cars. Too bad it's after a crises though.

I think a lot of us would like the answers to your questions. There are cetainly things we all could do to be safer. But on the flipside, how often does this actually happen? We would be safer if Delta gave us a parachute with our boarding pass. But, they are not going to do that.

[Lizardracing]

That's a good analogy but I also think there are a lot things one can do for next to nothing in time or cost that help prevent bad stuff.
I was working at a track where a seat was held down with ratchet straps. When the car stopped rolling the guy was still in the seat but upside down in the trunk! Unhurt thankfully.
I've also seen poor routing or cell mounting choices with hoses and wires that invite electrical problems and all sorts of things like that when working tech inspection. Was the tragedy over a part failure or was the human factor involved?
Just thinking out loud....

[DLM06]

I had a 10lb bottle mounted between the seat and lft side door. Probably not the best place but it fit well there. It had 3 nozzles; 1 at the cell, 1 at the drivers compartment and 1 at the engine bay. I always figured at the first sign of fire I would hit the knob and maybe gain a few seconds to get out. Maybe save some damage to the car also.

[Austin34471]

Idk man^ I had a small shop fire incident (welding on a car over the top of drain pain full of water from the radiator and about 1 seconds worth of fuel running out of the fuel line) and in hindsight I would have just let the fire do what it was gonna do.. that fire extinguisher just about ruined the car and made huge mess lol

^this is the problem with racers.. caring more about the car than their selves.
I know the main reason I don't run a fire extinguisher is because its heavy... after buying the composite roof, hollow bolts, and lightened everything.. I have a hard time spending 500$ to voluntarily bolt 10 more pounds to the car. I like what Ray Cook does and jacks the weight of every engine package up 50 pounds, then gives you a 30 pound weight break for wearing a head and neck restraint and 20 pounds for a fire system.

[zeroracing]

Pegasus auto has a bunch of options. The newer systems seem like cleanup is easy. I have the 5 lb in front of my seat on the floor, probably do a 10 lb on the next one, with remote pull cables and lines I can replace a small piece of lead with it.

[a25rjr]

We had the Phoenix system on one of our cars. We mounted the bottle under the deck next to the driver. We had the nozzles on the driver and engine compartment. Also, we had put a small door over it to check to make sure it stayed charged.

Wouldn't it be better to disperse all the fluid onto the driver? Would it prevent the driver from catching on fire?

[rakracing]

i'll add from experience ,the last time I layed upside down with fuel leaking from the cap on the cell, you loose perspective of where you are,not to mention you took a wild ride, steering wheel and all seem wrong cant get it off seatbelts are a problem you end up on a ball on the roof in the dark soaking fuel in your suit,, that being said we've been required to run a halon system for 20 year, have one mounted between seat and cage post under my left leg in a grt with a remote cable,, and I challenge you to find and pull that thing in the dark in that senerio, whats the best thing im not shur but an auto fire sensor would be best I believe, sorta like a sprinkler head. if your knocked out whos pulling it anyway.

[merc123]

The tracks should invest in these as well:

http://www.elidefire.com/products.htm

[ALF401]

I see cars that run 15 to 20 lap features with 32 gallon fuel cells. I see guys scaling with 20 gallons of fuel and plan to finish with close to that amount. We do a lot of dumb stuff that should be a wake up call.

[RacerX10]

I have rolled over 4 times

At what point do you start to wonder about this ?

5 ?

7 ?

[RacerX10]

Never, when you get off the porch and run top 4 everytime your out stuff is gonna happen, all my roll overs were at big special events in stock cars and I was racing 50-70 nights a year. Same car all 4 times the last one finished it off.

that's a lot of racing. too bad about that car, sounds like it was a winner (when right-side up)

[rakracing]

that one was back in the early 90s old style cell with the large cap ,nothing like the atl cells of today, where do you find such a system, never new they had the auto system probably what matt is asking about, as in whats the best system

[rakracing]

thanks stock car driver, AT system looks like the one, noticed they recommend swaglock for the lines, being a plumber i'm use to that stuff

[pfd60]

I have a firebottle mounted under the deck just in front to the right of my fuel cell with the gauge facing back so debris wont knock it off. I have a fusible glass bulb in it that will break when heated. Once it breaks it will discharge automatically. The nozzle is mounted right by the cap. Firebottle makes them just for fuel.cells. I also have a firebottle mounted under the deck just in front and above of the 6 arm attachment area. I have a pull cable and one nozzle into the (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)pit off that bottle. I was checking my pull cable Friday and didn't put the safety pin back in first and discharged it. Oops. There was no mess at all. I was mad at myself for pulling that move. since I have an old tank they wont recharge it. So I have to buy a new one. I'm going to buy a ten pound tank and add a nozzle to the engine compartment. These systems should put a small fire out I hope , and protect me in the event of a really serious fire. that's when the track fire crew needs to be on their toes with the proper equipment to put a large fire out fast. It wont be cheap to replace but I look at it as a must have and will not race without them.

[pfd60]

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com. I did some searching today and this site has a few different options to choose from. Pitstopusa.com was the most affordable.on firebottle brand stuff.

[riddle28]

for the price of an on board system you can buy a high quality cell or you can buy a quality suit and put a nice check valve in your existing cell. I agree with the other poster if youre upside down with fuel pouring out a fire extinguisher may not do a ton of good. im gonna invest in a good helmet skirt or head sock in the next few weeks also. Seconds are minutes in a fire