Black Front needing help in the slick

[DEKconsulting]

Yes we run a barrel type when i get that soft just so im not coil binding but yes we do grt that soft on a std spring. Yes we did have to compensate for lack of drive other places in setup.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I have successfully run a 175# rf on a modified Rayburn.

[HMS27]

I've thought about going softer on the RF but haven't yet.

[DEKconsulting]

Yea we usually run barrel springs if that low to keep from coil binding

[CCHIEF]

No barrel springs on front. Hperco makes a 275 spring that will work.....good luck getting one right now. You will need a well selected/fitted bump to have any drive. And it will be tight as a frogs ass getting in. And with a black car , even with a raised rail, it will put the rail and cross member on the ground. Stick with old school deals on black cars.

[DEKconsulting]

Good luck keeping up with all the new school technology running the old school setups. If its eorking for ya keep on getting it.

[CCHIEF]

Good luck keeping up with all the new school technology running the old school setups. If its eorking for ya keep on getting it.

Give a few examples of a black fe DLM rocket winning on a slick track....recently. And how to make a black car go with the lf down.... in the slick. The black front end was not designed to work with that much travel.

[CCHIEF]

Yes we run a barrel type when i get that soft just so im not coil binding but yes we do grt that soft on a std spring. Yes we did have to compensate for lack of drive other places in setup.

How do you compensate for lack of drive. Not being an ass, but tell it all or don't talk!

[Matt49]

You compensate for lack of drive by doing the opposite of what you did to get rid of it but somewhere else on the car. You kill forward bite when you soften the RF spring because you have LOST dynamic wedge. So you need to do something to get dynamic wedge BACK. But almost all of those things come with unwanted consequences on corner ENTRY. Which means you need to go do something to compensate for that which could have unwanted consequences on corner EXIT. So you end up with a series of changes that you need to make to get the overall balance you're looking for back in the car. A lot depends on driver. A lot depends on track configuration. There is not a "tell it all" secret formula that is a one-size-fits-all setup for a soft RF spring setup.
I'll provide an example:
You go to a softer RF spring and obviously you've lost dynamic wedge and therefore lost forward (LR) bite coming off the corner. So we need to get it back. Let's drop the RR upper bar on the chassis. Now we've decreased RR drive which increases LR drive so now we've got our forward bite on exit back. But we also decreased birdcage indexing on the RR which will free corner entry. So now we need to tighten corner entry...naturally we go and stiffen the LF spring because that will have the least effect on exit. Problem solved right? Not really because we don't know how much to move the RR upper bar and then how much to stiffen the LF spring. That takes testing and depends on the driver and nobody is going to just open up their setup book revealing what they spent many hours and many $$$ figuring out the hard way.

[DEKconsulting]

Exactly what matt said i cant sit here and tell u what to do to make ur car win exactly without seeing it run only make suggestions chief. As matt said again ur defintly not goin to get my note book from the past ten yrs ur gonna have to spend ur own time making ur own book like everyone else does. Sorry that i didnt have ur secret setup to share with you all. But once again the ones looking for the secret setup that everyone is running is usually the ones running mid pack and getting lapped cause their is "NO" MAGIC SETUP.

[DEKconsulting]

Not being an ass or anything

[CCHIEF]

Not being an ass or anything

Your not, and I have no intent either. So that is gone and we agree we are going to give productive help to others out there. There is a certain amount of responsibility when you speak of running that soft on the RF on older cars. You know how bad that car will be with all else the same. I'll add when I have more time.

[N2Racin]

Well I stiffened rr to a 275 thinking it would plant RR. 550 lf 375 rf 200 lr 53.2 left, 54.4 rear, both bottom bars low as they go, top bars standard middle holes, ,This thing was terrible free on a slck track. Black Rocket

[DEKconsulting]

If u dont mind me asking what is ur reasoning for ur lrlbar to be all the way down

[N2Racin]

Trying to tighten car, it is very loose

[DEKconsulting]

You are takin away all ur thrust angle out of ur lr bar. What type track or what track u run. Not sayin u are but without me seein u on the track my guess would be that u are way to tight on ur entry and breaking the car loose to turn the center.

[DEKconsulting]

Or u have something bound up or bent

[MBR Performance]

Message me I don't mind sharing my notebook.

[grt74]

Well I stiffened rr to a 275 thinking it would plant RR. 550 lf 375 rf 200 lr 53.2 left, 54.4 rear, both bottom bars low as they go, top bars standard middle holes, ,This thing was terrible free on a slck track. Black Rocket

if you dropped the lr bottom bar,you'll need to make sure it didn't cam over,it will kill your drive

[N2Racin]

GRT 74 I think that is what happened.

MBR Performance gave me some good info on things to check on LR drop and bar angles. I also moved right front shock in1 inch at top for clearance of the shock. Ran a lot better. Cross member and tie rod bolt on ground now.