Final appeal

[Barbecueboy]

Thats 'SOME PIG' bbq lmao

Indeed........

[Barbecueboy]

LOL
Here is the link, it's post 62

http://www.4m.net/showthread.php?359...85#post2019085

Turns out he was incorrect, huh.............they weren't checking ( or hadn't been ) up to that point and at that time in the series.

But in your defense.......you did read it from a non racing poster on 4m.......so, must be true?

Thanks for indulging me and showing he made that post, but I think I'll stick with the info from folks that were actually at the tracks anyway if youre ok with that, lol.

[blncfn57]

Turns out he was incorrect, huh.............they weren't checking ( or hadn't been ) up to that point and at that time in the series.

But in your defense.......you did read it from a non racing poster on 4m.......so, must be true?

Thanks for indulging me and showing he made that post, but I think I'll stick with the info from folks that were actually at the tracks anyway if youre ok with that, lol.

I generally don't go to the races to watch what the officials are doing. All I said was that it was posted on here and I provided where I read it. I did not see where his post was proved to be wrong. Nonetheless, they did check during the summer nationals as I did happen to see it as I was leaving one night and several others have posted that it was being done. My question for you is, did they change the process? It sure doesn't sound like it.
I don't understand why you get so uptight when someone shares a different opinion than you? Yes, I think these 5 are guilty, as much as I'd like to believe they are not, I just can't fall to the level of believing a screwed up system only caused 5 bad samples. It's not a personal thing with you, I just don't agree with your theory on the subject. Heck, if the system was so shady, I don't think the drivers would WANT to participate in any events associated with that sanction. Brandon went right back to entering the events afterwards. That tells me the system used is not the problem. That's just the way I see it and my opinion, I've been known to be wrong before....... my ex wife says anyway.

[rageman]

I don't get this because if someone is using tire prep on there tires and the conditions are hot dry and abrasive track ,well being involved in karting for years and yes we prepped tires but they were usually used only in heat races and for the features we would keep a set of 4 virgin tires and my point is that it doesn't mean these drivers are guilty ,some one else could have been using prep and when these cars that got supposedly caught could have very well picked the prep up from the track that someone else layed down on the track ,just some thing that has been on my mind so don't call them cheaters until they make a ruling ,but I still have my doubts that these guys were cheating

[turnleftandgasit]

Taking a sample during the manufacturing process won't hold up in a court of law. The tires are not delivered in a sealed container, any number of people had access to them before being sold to a driver. Do I think these drivers cheated, most likely, but they have a very strong case in my eyes. Unless you have a sample of the tire from the day they took possession of it, you can not prove they altered it or that it wasn't altered before they got it.

[blncfn57]

I don't get this because if someone is using tire prep on there tires and the conditions are hot dry and abrasive track ,well being involved in karting for years and yes we prepped tires but they were usually used only in heat races and for the features we would keep a set of 4 virgin tires and my point is that it doesn't mean these drivers are guilty ,some one else could have been using prep and when these cars that got supposedly caught could have very well picked the prep up from the track that someone else layed down on the track ,just some thing that has been on my mind so don't call them cheaters until they make a ruling ,but I still have my doubts that these guys were cheating

I suppose if you wanna go by that theory that's up to you, but I would have a hard time believing that only 5 of the 32 manged to pick up the said prep from the racetrack. They have made a ruling, they also stood by that ruling at the first appeal and most likely will at this final appeal.

[blncfn57]

Taking a sample during the manufacturing process won't hold up in a court of law. The tires are not delivered in a sealed container, any number of people had access to them before being sold to a driver. Do I think these drivers cheated, most likely, but they have a very strong case in my eyes. Unless you have a sample of the tire from the day they took possession of it, you can not prove they altered it or that it wasn't altered before they got it.

It is only the sanctioning body's job to say whether or not a tire used in competition was legal or not. They can't give free passes because someone 3 handlings ago prepped it.... imagine the mess that would create. If a crate guy buys a truckload of used tires from someone that had been running prepped tires and they get caught with them, the tires are still illegal whether they "knew" or not.
I'm fairly certain, as big $ as the the sport has become, that there are people in business either offering tire prepping service or actually buying the tires themselves and pepping them to resell. That's why UMP/WRG can't go by anything other than if the tires used were legal or not.

[Barbecueboy]

I generally don't go to the races to watch what the officials are doing. All I said was that it was posted on here and I provided where I read it. I did not see where his post was proved to be wrong. Nonetheless, they did check during the summer nationals as I did happen to see it as I was leaving one night and several others have posted that it was being done. My question for you is, did they change the process? It sure doesn't sound like it.
I don't understand why you get so uptight when someone shares a different opinion than you? Yes, I think these 5 are guilty, as much as I'd like to believe they are not, I just can't fall to the level of believing a screwed up system only caused 5 bad samples. It's not a personal thing with you, I just don't agree with your theory on the subject. Heck, if the system was so shady, I don't think the drivers would WANT to participate in any events associated with that sanction. Brandon went right back to entering the events afterwards. That tells me the system used is not the problem. That's just the way I see it and my opinion, I've been known to be wrong before....... my ex wife says anyway.

I think you have uptight confused with " a different opinion".......just because my opinion differs doesn't mean that i don't have the same right as you to state my opinion and give reasons as to why.

I don't think the system used is as much shady as it is outdated, inaccurate and loaded with potential places for errors to occur...........I'm of the belief that there should be absolutely no doubt.........and as it is, and you can say it's only BBQBOY bitching about it if you want, but there are many many people that work on, drive, own, sponsor and attend this traveling circus we all go too that have doubts in the way things are done.

If it were just me, then sure........I'm the lunatic in the room.......fine.

So we can just disagree and btw if you've ever noticed.......I'm virtually never the guy that makes the aggressive post first......check for yourself.

I may be the noisiest and the most pointed in the room once it gets going, but rarely ever do I fire the first salvo.............( litey and oldfart50 maybe being the exception)

And fwiw........they didn't test a soul in the early weeks following the dream announcement at the Summer Nats.......maybe a driver or SAMs mouthpiece on here can set me straight on it.

[Barbecueboy]

I don't get this because if someone is using tire prep on there tires and the conditions are hot dry and abrasive track ,well being involved in karting for years and yes we prepped tires but they were usually used only in heat races and for the features we would keep a set of 4 virgin tires and my point is that it doesn't mean these drivers are guilty ,some one else could have been using prep and when these cars that got supposedly caught could have very well picked the prep up from the track that someone else layed down on the track ,just some thing that has been on my mind so don't call them cheaters until they make a ruling ,but I still have my doubts that these guys were cheating

Doubts you say?????

[Barbecueboy]

Taking a sample during the manufacturing process won't hold up in a court of law. The tires are not delivered in a sealed container, any number of people had access to them before being sold to a driver. Do I think these drivers cheated, most likely, but they have a very strong case in my eyes. Unless you have a sample of the tire from the day they took possession of it, you can not prove they altered it or that it wasn't altered before they got it.

I've heard that somewhere else before..........you bring up a good point.

[Barbecueboy]

I suppose if you wanna go by that theory that's up to you, but I would have a hard time believing that only 5 of the 32 manged to pick up the said prep from the racetrack. They have made a ruling, they also stood by that ruling at the first appeal and most likely will at this final appeal.

i suppose???? Have a hard time believing???most likely???

All statements that seem to open the window of uncertainty.

The right guy in the right situation representing the right person will have a field day with that type of chatter.........there should be no mights, maybes or we are 90 % sures.

[Barbecueboy]

It is only the sanctioning body's job to say whether or not a tire used in competition was legal or not. They can't give free passes because someone 3 handlings ago prepped it.... imagine the mess that would create. If a crate guy buys a truckload of used tires from someone that had been running prepped tires and they get caught with them, the tires are still illegal whether they "knew" or not.
I'm fairly certain, as big $ as the the sport has become, that there are people in business either offering tire prepping service or actually buying the tires themselves and pepping them to resell. That's why UMP/WRG can't go by anything other than if the tires used were legal or not.

Imagine the mess it WOULD create???? As if the mess we have now is ok???

[Bubstr]

I don't think World Racing group, really cares who doped the tires. You can dope thousands of tires, but until you race on them, you have broken no rules. They only care if the benchmark was solid and that these tires didn't match that benchmark. End of story. Black and white. Not knowing the tires where doped is not a measure of innocents, just a measure of ignorance.

We all know that lots of them cheat some, we just have to wonder how many escaped this round of witch hunt. I kinda feel sorry for these guys, because they where probably told this stuff is undetectable, just like the ones that didn't get caught this time.

I will miss a couple at PDC and Cedar Lake, not that they always win, but they make the prize of winning so much bigger.

[NY DIRT]

Drop the suspension from 90 days to 60 days. But since the final appeal was July 18th, the suspension should start July 19th and end Sept. 16th. There you have it from the voice of reason...

[Barbecueboy]

I don't think World Racing group, really cares who doped the tires. You can dope thousands of tires, but until you race on them, you have broken no rules. They only care if the benchmark was solid and that these tires didn't match that benchmark. End of story. Black and white. Not knowing the tires where doped is not a measure of innocents, just a measure of ignorance.

We all know that lots of them cheat some, we just have to wonder how many escaped this round of witch hunt. I kinda feel sorry for these guys, because they where probably told this stuff is undetectable, just like the ones that didn't get caught this time.

I will miss a couple at PDC and Cedar Lake, not that they always win, but they make the prize of winning so much bigger.

If it were black and white.......nobody would still be talking about it.

[turnleftandgasit]

If you are gonna make the racer responsible for having an untreated tire, the manufacturer should be required to provide the driver with a tire in a package that is sealed. Again, I do not think the drivers are innocent, I just couldn't convict them in a court of law. UMP and Hoosier can not prove that a brand new tire, hasn't been doctored, or came into contact with chemicals, before the racer receives it. Once it leaves the factory, all bets are off. Truck driver, people at the warehouse, UPS driver, chemicals.............Too many variables. Do I think that is what happened? No, I don't, but you can't prove it didn't!

[huskerdirt]

If it were black and white.......nobody would still be talking about it.

It is pretty black and white actually. The only reason this came up was because of the final appeal aka a Hail Mary. A final appeal doesn't make it all of sudden any less black and white. If they couldn't prove there case in the first appeal. What makes you think it's gonna happen this time around?

Most of this topic is you arguing, blabbering out gibberish and contradicting yourself. Like when you said a "friend" told you they weren't taking tire samples. But when somebody said that wasn't the case. You stated that you are a "see for yourself kinda guy".

You and you only are the reason this topic is 8 pages. Not because people are talking about it. Child, please.

[Cardirt0]

Its not that the ones that did it were caught.. Its what if the ones they say did it Did not....Now you are a Cheat when you are NOT.... Thats a WRONG that will never be made right.....There is nothing worst then knowing they say you did something Wrong when YOU know you did not.... I spoke too Jason and he told me... They call me a Cheat, and I know I did nothing WRONG, you dont know how much that $ucks..............

[Barbecueboy]

If you are gonna make the racer responsible for having an untreated tire, the manufacturer should be required to provide the driver with a tire in a package that is sealed. Again, I do not think the drivers are innocent, I just couldn't convict them in a court of law. UMP and Hoosier can not prove that a brand new tire, hasn't been doctored, or came into contact with chemicals, before the racer receives it. Once it leaves the factory, all bets are off. Truck driver, people at the warehouse, UPS driver, chemicals.............Too many variables. Do I think that is what happened? No, I don't, but you can't prove it didn't!

Your going to be labeled a pig puller if you keep that up^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Don't really think I could have said it better if I tried..........and believe me, I've tried.

[Barbecueboy]

It is pretty black and white actually. The only reason this came up was because of the final appeal aka a Hail Mary. A final appeal doesn't make it all of sudden any less black and white. If they couldn't prove there case in the first appeal. What makes you think it's gonna happen this time around?

Most of this topic is you arguing, blabbering out gibberish and contradicting yourself. Like when you said a "friend" told you they weren't taking tire samples. But when somebody said that wasn't the case. You stated that you are a "see for yourself kinda guy".

You and you only are the reason this topic is 8 pages. Not because people are talking about it. Child, please.

Actually I said " somebody that was there told me they weren't taking samples during the begnning of the summer nationals ( right after the dream announcement).

And they weren't........your man Heinz 57 took a post from a pierce fan 4 m member that said Bobby was being checked during that period......he found it and posted it.........truth is , he was wrong, nobody got checked, just as my buddy who was there said.

I also stated that I wasn't sure about any races at the end of the series being checked......that has since been verified that there were samples collected at the last few races by someone who was actually there.

It's been far from black and white from the beginning.............but in your mind, I'm the only guy questioning it , even though there are multiple examples in this very thread that show others aren't real comfortable with the process either........again, guys that actually go to the track more than a couple times a year.

You should try it.......you may learn something about racing instead of learning how to get wireless to work in moms basement so you can post.