Final appeal

[blncfn57]

This place will blow up if it's shortened.

I don't think it will be as bad on here as it will in the racing world. Drivers and teams that don't wanna play the tire game have been screaming about this for the last 4 years. I know it was going on before that, but the big blowup with the teams and the sanctioning body that I remember was in 2012 so I'm going by that.
IF one or all of these teams are truly innocent, I feel they should be putting their time and energy into figuring out what caused the problem and getting it corrected rather than just saying "I didn't cheat" and leading the fans to believe the enforcer is crooked. The sanctioning body is trying to enforce rules that the whole pit area knows are being broken. They are trying to find things in which the drivers are being told are "undetectable" by the folks who supply the chemicals. If this was a hoosier problem (5 out of 32, it's not likely) than hoosier needs to make it right with the teams, not WRG/UMP.
I hate to see this happen to anyone and I do not want to believe these 5 guys cheated up their tires, but more times than not, things are just as they seem. I did not want to believe OJ murdered anyone. I am the guy that reads a horrible story of a possible drunk driver causing a fatal accident and I pray that he was not drunk...... because I do not like seeing bad things happen to people. I'm not generally the guy that believes everyone that is charged is guilty and I have been raked over the coals for supporting people that I was proved wrong about in the end, it happens.

The question I have is, everyone knows this tire doping is happening, so if these guys are not doing it, then who are the ones that have everyone stirred up about it? I have been vocal on here and for the sake of these 5 guys I hope I am wrong, but as hard as I try I can't ignore the fact that not only did these 5 samples come back bad against the benchmark, they came back bad against the other 27 tires tested also.
I think we may see some sort of compromise between these drivers and the sanctioning body. I don't think UMP/WRG wants to ruin anyone's reputation, but I think they want to hold their ground so everyone knows they are serious about this tire stuff also. Maybe a reduction of the suspension? I think that may be an option. I do not think that the sanctioning body is going to do anything to cast doubt upon their process, a process the drivers all agreed to when they signed in at the back gate.

[Barbecueboy]

Do the crime, do the time. Independent test results say they did the crime. There's nothing to dispute. Offer some evidence that you didn't do anything because scientific tests say you did!

They are all cheaters.........they have all been vetted and determined to be cheaters by the highest court in the land.

[Barbecueboy]

I don't think it will be as bad on here as it will in the racing world. Drivers and teams that don't wanna play the tire game have been screaming about this for the last 4 years. I know it was going on before that, but the big blowup with the teams and the sanctioning body that I remember was in 2012 so I'm going by that.
IF one or all of these teams are truly innocent, I feel they should be putting their time and energy into figuring out what caused the problem and getting it corrected rather than just saying "I didn't cheat" and leading the fans to believe the enforcer is crooked. The sanctioning body is trying to enforce rules that the whole pit area knows are being broken. They are trying to find things in which the drivers are being told are "undetectable" by the folks who supply the chemicals. If this was a hoosier problem (5 out of 32, it's not likely) than hoosier needs to make it right with the teams, not WRG/UMP.
I hate to see this happen to anyone and I do not want to believe these 5 guys cheated up their tires, but more times than not, things are just as they seem. I did not want to believe OJ murdered anyone. I am the guy that reads a horrible story of a possible drunk driver causing a fatal accident and I pray that he was not drunk...... because I do not like seeing bad things happen to people. I'm not generally the guy that believes everyone that is charged is guilty and I have been raked over the coals for supporting people that I was proved wrong about in the end, it happens.

The question I have is, everyone knows this tire doping is happening, so if these guys are not doing it, then who are the ones that have everyone stirred up about it? I have been vocal on here and for the sake of these 5 guys I hope I am wrong, but as hard as I try I can't ignore the fact that not only did these 5 samples come back bad against the benchmark, they came back bad against the other 27 tires tested also.
I think we may see some sort of compromise between these drivers and the sanctioning body. I don't think UMP/WRG wants to ruin anyone's reputation, but I think they want to hold their ground so everyone knows they are serious about this tire stuff also. Maybe a reduction of the suspension? I think that may be an option. I do not think that the sanctioning body is going to do anything to cast doubt upon their process, a process the drivers all agreed to when they signed in at the back gate.

They are all cheaters......think you said so yourself.

Let's just go wit that.

And fwiw, the promoters don't need to cast doubt on their process, that ship has already sailed.......

[Barbecueboy]

And if it's so cut and dry like you and the other hangmen have all said, why would they even consider reducing any kind of penalties, fines, suspensions, etc...........if they are trying to make a point about tire doping that is.

I can promise you it's not out of the goodness of their heart...........my guess, it's not so cut and dry.

[blncfn57]

And if it's so cut and dry like you and the other hangmen have all said, why would they even consider reducing any kind of penalties, fines, suspensions, etc...........if they are trying to make a point about tire doping that is.

I can promise you it's not out of the goodness of their heart...........my guess, it's not so cut and dry.

I couldn't care less what happens. I believe that the big group of drivers, car owners and crew guys who discuss this topic know what they are talking about. I only said that a reduction may be an option to a compromise. I really wouldn't consider it a "win" for either party tho. If the evidence against them was not sufficient, I think we would have seen a different outcome in the first appeal.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

I don't think it will be as bad on here as it will in the racing world. Drivers and teams that don't wanna play the tire game have been screaming about this for the last 4 years. I know it was going on before that, but the big blowup with the teams and the sanctioning body that I remember was in 2012 so I'm going by that.
IF one or all of these teams are truly innocent, I feel they should be putting their time and energy into figuring out what caused the problem and getting it corrected rather than just saying "I didn't cheat" and leading the fans to believe the enforcer is crooked. The sanctioning body is trying to enforce rules that the whole pit area knows are being broken. They are trying to find things in which the drivers are being told are "undetectable" by the folks who supply the chemicals. If this was a hoosier problem (5 out of 32, it's not likely) than hoosier needs to make it right with the teams, not WRG/UMP.
I hate to see this happen to anyone and I do not want to believe these 5 guys cheated up their tires, but more times than not, things are just as they seem. I did not want to believe OJ murdered anyone. I am the guy that reads a horrible story of a possible drunk driver causing a fatal accident and I pray that he was not drunk...... because I do not like seeing bad things happen to people. I'm not generally the guy that believes everyone that is charged is guilty and I have been raked over the coals for supporting people that I was proved wrong about in the end, it happens.

The question I have is, everyone knows this tire doping is happening, so if these guys are not doing it, then who are the ones that have everyone stirred up about it? I have been vocal on here and for the sake of these 5 guys I hope I am wrong, but as hard as I try I can't ignore the fact that not only did these 5 samples come back bad against the benchmark, they came back bad against the other 27 tires tested also.
I think we may see some sort of compromise between these drivers and the sanctioning body. I don't think UMP/WRG wants to ruin anyone's reputation, but I think they want to hold their ground so everyone knows they are serious about this tire stuff also. Maybe a reduction of the suspension? I think that may be an option. I do not think that the sanctioning body is going to do anything to cast doubt upon their process, a process the drivers all agreed to when they signed in at the back gate.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but nice post. Only thing that says not completely guilty is why keep pushing the issue? They usually let it go after that first appeal.

I think they are fighting it and trying to get another lab to look at it. We shall see how it shakes out. I'd guess a shorter suspension honestly.

[Umpdirt1]

Read the registration that every driver signs, there is no legal action any driver can take. They basically sign a waiver cut n dry. End of story.

[powerslide]

And if it's so cut and dry like you and the other hangmen have all said, why would they even consider reducing any kind of penalties, fines, suspensions, etc...........if they are trying to make a point about tire doping that is.

I can promise you it's not out of the goodness of their heart...........my guess, it's not so cut and dry.

If they do shorten the sentence it will look exactly as you said. I don't think they can do it without losing further respect from the racers. P-off 5 racers or the other 80?

[W2Racing09]

They are all cheaters.........they have all been vetted and determined to be cheaters by the highest court in the land.

You might as well flip it around, because the reverse is also true.

The drivers/teams have been declared innocent by Barbecueboy, there is no way they could be guilty. Barbecueboy was personally at all five of their shops (simultaneously) for two weeks leading up to the Dream and has been able to confirm with 100% certainly that none of the tires could possibly be illegal in any way.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[blncfn57]

Can't believe I'm saying this, but nice post. Only thing that says not completely guilty is why keep pushing the issue? They usually let it go after that first appeal.

I think they are fighting it and trying to get another lab to look at it. We shall see how it shakes out. I'd guess a shorter suspension honestly.

If it wasn't for the big races the suspension involves I think they prolly would let it go. I also think that it says alot about how confident UMP/WRG is with their process. A decision to suspend a couple of the biggest names in the sport from some of the biggest races in the sport I bet wasn't taken lightly. This is all JMO, for what it's worth.

[Aces&Eights]

If you appeal and you are denied then they should extend there suspension!!!!!! cheating bastards got what they deserve!!!! Theres no big conspiracy here they cheated and got caught!!!! nuff said!!!!

Another keyboard "Know-It-All". Everybody is lying, everybody cheats and his wife is boinking the neighborhood!!!!

[oldfart50]

Yes they cheated and if you think your wife hasnt boinked someone other than you, then you and BBQ are sharing IQ points and he doesnt have many to share...

Another keyboard "Know-It-All". Everybody is lying, everybody cheats and his wife is boinking the neighborhood!!!!

[Barbecueboy]

You might as well flip it around, because the reverse is also true.

The drivers/teams have been declared innocent by Barbecueboy, there is no way they could be guilty. Barbecueboy was personally at all five of their shops (simultaneously) for two weeks leading up to the Dream and has been able to confirm with 100% certainly that none of the tires could possibly be illegal in any way.

Thanks,
Jeff.

And had I ever said anything remotely close to that , then you could make that point....

But I didn't , and you can't.


Unlike all the rest of you that have screamed at the top of your lungs, they all cheat, they all do it..........I never ever once implied anything of the sort about who may or may not have cheated and nothing even close to what you dreamt up about me being at the shops.

My issue is the process...........and the doubt it leaves.

[Barbecueboy]

Read the registration that every driver signs, there is no legal action any driver can take. They basically sign a waiver cut n dry. End of story.

Waiver worth the paper it's written on............even you know that.

[Barbecueboy]

Yes they cheated and if you think your wife hasnt boinked someone other than you, then you and BBQ are sharing IQ points and he doesnt have many to share...

Is it hard to type while laying flat on your back on the sidewalk?????

[Barbecueboy]

If they do shorten the sentence it will look exactly as you said. I don't think they can do it without losing further respect from the racers. P-off 5 racers or the other 80?

I think all the racers would prefer that they just get it right..............and make 100% sure that there is no doubt......zero.

[Barbecueboy]

I don't think it will be as bad on here as it will in the racing world. Drivers and teams that don't wanna play the tire game have been screaming about this for the last 4 years. I know it was going on before that, but the big blowup with the teams and the sanctioning body that I remember was in 2012 so I'm going by that.
IF one or all of these teams are truly innocent, I feel they should be putting their time and energy into figuring out what caused the problem and getting it corrected rather than just saying "I didn't cheat" and leading the fans to believe the enforcer is crooked. The sanctioning body is trying to enforce rules that the whole pit area knows are being broken. They are trying to find things in which the drivers are being told are "undetectable" by the folks who supply the chemicals. If this was a hoosier problem (5 out of 32, it's not likely) than hoosier needs to make it right with the teams, not WRG/UMP.
I hate to see this happen to anyone and I do not want to believe these 5 guys cheated up their tires, but more times than not, things are just as they seem. I did not want to believe OJ murdered anyone. I am the guy that reads a horrible story of a possible drunk driver causing a fatal accident and I pray that he was not drunk...... because I do not like seeing bad things happen to people. I'm not generally the guy that believes everyone that is charged is guilty and I have been raked over the coals for supporting people that I was proved wrong about in the end, it happens.

The question I have is, everyone knows this tire doping is happening, so if these guys are not doing it, then who are the ones that have everyone stirred up about it? I have been vocal on here and for the sake of these 5 guys I hope I am wrong, but as hard as I try I can't ignore the fact that not only did these 5 samples come back bad against the benchmark, they came back bad against the other 27 tires tested also.
I think we may see some sort of compromise between these drivers and the sanctioning body. I don't think UMP/WRG wants to ruin anyone's reputation, but I think they want to hold their ground so everyone knows they are serious about this tire stuff also. Maybe a reduction of the suspension? I think that may be an option. I do not think that the sanctioning body is going to do anything to cast doubt upon their process, a process the drivers all agreed to when they signed in at the back gate.

Compared to the stance you took in the other threads about this, what I'm reading above looks like a giant kettle full of backpeddle stew..........

What happened to .......they're 100% guilty.....get what they deserve......all cheaters.....no doubt about lab results and collection process and all of that????


You got any crackers to go with that?

[Highside Hustler25]

If they do shorten the sentence it will look exactly as you said. I don't think they can do it without losing further respect from the racers. P-off 5 racers or the other 80?

my thoughts as well.

[cgrace]

i hope process gets changed. youall assume guilty but dont know whats the differences of results are? all results the same w each drivers tires? are theydifferent? how different is an oldtire vs new? too many whatifs? they should be tested before racing. the outcome of everyrace could have been diff if they didnt race that night. not fair all way round. are they going back and uppin pay of each other driver in their races that night?

[Barbecueboy]

i hope process gets changed. youall assume guilty but dont know whats the differences of results are? all results the same w each drivers tires? are theydifferent? how different is an oldtire vs new? too many whatifs? they should be tested before racing. the outcome of everyrace could have been diff if they didnt race that night. not fair all way round. are they going back and uppin pay of each other driver in their races that night?

For so many of 4ms judge Judy club to have made their ruling on absolute guilt in this matter.........

There sure does seem to be a lot of question and uncertainties lingering around months later........
Strange considering the tests are 100% accurate and the process is so cut and dry.