Final appeal

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

Guilty or not this is just a messed up deal.

[Barbecueboy]

Wouldn't be so messed up if it were as cut and dry as all of the appeal-ogists are saying........

Too many questions.........too many doubts..........not enough answers or transparency.

[Dirtfan04]

I hope they overturn the suspensions. The tracks that chose that sanctioning body are getting penalized for their biggest show of the year by banning people from running the race THEY are putting on. (FALS/Cedar Lake)

These tracks should be pissed at the drivers who CHOSE to cheat. They are the ones that are hurting the tracks by making a deliberate decision to disobey the rules that they all agreed to abide by when they CHOSE to race with that sanctioning body.

You don't blame the police for catching a criminal. Oh well wait a minute, maybe that is exactly what is happening this day and time. Maybe that is why so many are standing up for the cheaters and portraying them as victims of the system instead of having then own up to their own decisions and accept the consequences.

What would impress me is if any of the drivers caught would just admit that they made a mistake, own up to it, pledge not to let it happen again, and accept the punishment. If so, then I might just order a shirt or do something else in support of that driver just for being a man in the childish world of today and acting like an adult and doing the right thing. Definitely a rarity these days. I don't think I would be alone. I think others would show their support as well.

But who am I kidding, that will never happen in today's world where the motto is never admit any wrongdoing, just hire a lawyer and fight it till the end.

Ridiculous!

[kidrock]

If they reduce the penalty then they will lose creditability in my opinion. if they are on the up and up as far as the testing goes and they are confident these drivers cheated then stick to your guns and the length of the penalty to let them and the rest of the drivers know this is what happens when you cheat.

[Barbecueboy]

There are a bunch of ifs.........aren't there?

[golddirt]

Few years back feger admitted what he done and it was an honest error but he did not deny it was just a mistake on his part

[kidrock]

There are a bunch of ifs.........aren't there?

Are you asking me or telling me because I wouldn't have a clue if there is a bunch of if's.

[Barbecueboy]

These tracks should be pissed at the drivers who CHOSE to cheat. They are the ones that are hurting the tracks by making a deliberate decision to disobey the rules that they all agreed to abide by when they CHOSE to race with that sanctioning body.

You don't blame the police for catching a criminal. Oh well wait a minute, maybe that is exactly what is happening this day and time. Maybe that is why so many are standing up for the cheaters and portraying them as victims of the system instead of having then own up to their own decisions and accept the consequences.

What would impress me is if any of the drivers caught would just admit that they made a mistake, own up to it, pledge not to let it happen again, and accept the punishment. If so, then I might just order a shirt or do something else in support of that driver just for being a man in the childish world of today and acting like an adult and doing the right thing. Definitely a rarity these days. I don't think I would be alone. I think others would show their support as well.

But who am I kidding, that will never happen in today's world where the motto is never admit any wrongdoing, just hire a lawyer and fight it till the end.

Ridiculous!

What's ridiculous is the police anology..........

They do a full fledged investigation prior to arresting someone ( unless they witness the crime in progress)

And then after that there are facts brought up from both sides to either prove or disprove.........in a court of law.

The system is broken......it's not working......yet it's policed the same way.

But your right, they are all a bunch of cheaters...............why?because Heinz 57 says so.

[Barbecueboy]

Are you asking me or telling me because I wouldn't have a clue if there is a bunch of if's.

You had two just in your short paragraph alone.......

[kidrock]

You had two just in your short paragraph alone.......

I see what your saying and yes they may not be on the up and up that I wouldn't have clue about.

[Dirtfan04]

What's ridiculous is the police anology..........

They do a full fledged investigation prior to arresting someone ( unless they witness the crime in progress)

And then after that there are facts brought up from both sides to either prove or disprove.........in a court of law.

The system is broken......it's not working......yet it's policed the same way.

But your right, they are all a bunch of cheaters...............why?because Heinz 57 says so.

Correct or not, that system is the same system that was in place before the event. It is the system that everyone of those competitors chose to compete under. It was all fine until they got caught. I'm not saying that there isn't a better system, but don't be a hypocrite and cry and complain and say how unfair it was because you were the one who got caught for cheating. They broke the rules that were in place at the time of the event that they had agreed to abide by. Maybe there will be a better system in the future, but that is the system that they agreed to at that race.

[Barbecueboy]

Correct or not, that system is the same system that was in place before the event. It is the system that everyone of those competitors chose to compete under. It was all fine until they got caught. I'm not saying that there isn't a better system, but don't be a hypocrite and cry and complain and say how unfair it was because you were the one who got caught for cheating. They broke the rules that were in place at the time of the event that they had agreed to abide by. Maybe there will be a better system in the future, but that is the system that they agreed to at that race.

I don't think anyone of them said it was unfair..............just that it was incorrect.

[Umpdirt1]

http://www.dirtcarump.com/points/dir...mbership-form/

[Barbecueboy]

These tracks should be pissed at the drivers who CHOSE to cheat. They are the ones that are hurting the tracks by making a deliberate decision to disobey the rules that they all agreed to abide by when they CHOSE to race with that sanctioning body.

You don't blame the police for catching a criminal. Oh well wait a minute, maybe that is exactly what is happening this day and time. Maybe that is why so many are standing up for the cheaters and portraying them as victims of the system instead of having then own up to their own decisions and accept the consequences.

What would impress me is if any of the drivers caught would just admit that they made a mistake, own up to it, pledge not to let it happen again, and accept the punishment. If so, then I might just order a shirt or do something else in support of that driver just for being a man in the childish world of today and acting like an adult and doing the right thing. Definitely a rarity these days. I don't think I would be alone. I think others would show their support as well.

But who am I kidding, that will never happen in today's world where the motto is never admit any wrongdoing, just hire a lawyer and fight it till the end.

Ridiculous!

I think I know the answer to this but am going to ask it anyway.........

If someone accused you of doing something that you know for a fact you did not do.....would you just accept what they said as fact or would you try and prove your innocence?

[Barbecueboy]

http://www.dirtcarump.com/points/dir...mbership-form/

Love the last sentence in section number 5.........pretty much sums up and puts to rest the fairy tale about ump not being able to be sued or challenged in court because of the waiver signed..............and it starts out with the word, IF..............imagine that.

Thanks for clearing it up.

Says plain as day , the Person bringing the suit must pay for umps legal fees to represent their side of the story.............if I'm the guy being charged with cheating and know I'm innocent.......no problem paying for the ump representation, I'm going to ask for that much if not more in damages anyway.

They will end up in a real court to get a real decision..........not a peanut gallery of one sided accusers that wouldn't admit they are wrong if the room was on fire and they held the match.

[victorylane]

The only people who are crying about the process being flawed are ones who were caught recently or in the past plus some of the keyboard jockeys on here. The only thing I would like to have made public is what was in or missing from the tire. But I'm pretty sure the drivers accused/caught were told what was wrong with the samples and they also have not said publicly what the problem was other than Bloomquist saying something was missing from the sample. Maybe UMP feels the only ones that need to know is them and the accused. If that is there stance and would come out and say that then I would be ok with that.

Also trying to bully UMP by saying that lawyers will be getting involved is funny to me. That tactic might work against the smaller sanctions but not UMP, WOO or LUCAS.

[Dirt Racing #1]

If someone accused you of doing something you didn't do? You need to prove your not guilty. With some sort of evidence. May be difficult in this case.

[Barbecueboy]

If someone accused you of doing something you didn't do? You need to prove your not guilty. With some sort of evidence. May be difficult in this case.

So how exactly are they given the opportunity to prove that they are innocent?

The one sided appeal board that ump puts together???
Retesting the same piece of rubber at the same lab???


Will be difficult if not impossible the way the process is set up..............and that is my beef.

Could care less about the personalities involved..

[Barbecueboy]

If someone accused you of doing something you didn't do? You need to prove your not guilty. With some sort of evidence. May be difficult in this case.

And fwiw..........if this gets to a court of law.

About the only evidence needed to get it tossed out would be to follow the chain of custody of the tire........if they can track the tire from production to when it's sold to the team then there would be no question if the tire came into contact with a contaminant like tire dope as to who introduced it into or onto the tire.......but they can't because such a log and check and balance doesn't exist.

I think it's referred to as reasonable doubt.

And does it really matter?......they are all cheaters......every single racer on the planet......4m and Heinz 57 says so.

[Dirt Racing #1]

I do believe nearly ever driver is breaking the rules. In some sort of way. Not all doping tires.