New Lucas Tire Rule and a New Chassis for Owens

[Barbecueboy]

your missing the point on how racers think. Most of the time the top level racers choose the same tires for a given situation because it's the best for it. But since they all choose the same they have no advantage over each other. The only way to get an edge is to alter the tire they want to use to be slightly different than competition. A tire company could never make enough tires to suit. Open tire I think is best, but not a 100% solution either. Once u start dictating compounds racers start looking for an edge. 15 years ago Rex Richey had the SAS series all messed up. Rule was everyone D55, he relabeled other compounds to say D55 and sold them. They ended up going open tire just to put him out of business.

Open tire, all brands, must declare brand before event, no open treating, and we're back to racing without home chemistry.

I understand how racers think and I agree with you.......but really good racers look to take advantage with their driving skills , not their cheating skills.

And I agree with the open tire rule.......but that ain't happening any time soon.

[Bumpandrun]

Who is Owens going to be driving for in the new Rocket? And is he returning back to the motor's he has run in the past?

[Aces&Eights]

@Barbecue You asked, "why they don't make tires that do exactly what racers want?"
That would be impossible, because what they want is an edge over everyone else, which is either a custom tire compound(unique) or customize the compound yourself(cheating). I'm not suggesting All racers resort to cheating tires, but the desire to be a step ahead is the motivation that can lead to it and when the box is made smaller, the temptation only increases.

[Kromulous]

The old problem was Hoosier had the power to hold series and promoters at ransom. VIA pulling points funds etc. Now days Lucas and WOO are big enough to say hey, we want X tire and that's it. No re-stamping, or other shenanigans.

I think Lucas or WoO could get Hoosier to produce tires that say LUCAS-RR etc etc for all 4 corners. Then if they find Hooiser is doing some shady $hit, and their know for it, they can put the crimps on them. Take the power back to the sanctioning bodies.

[Aces&Eights]

Rex Richey was so good with his re-stamping he fooled Hoosier, so...

[Kromulous]

Paint stamp on the inside of the tire.

There is an idea, put some type of paint or chalk on the inside of the tire. If its gone, dissolved etc your out, via tire softener on the inside of the tire.

I wonder if there is a chemical you could add to the rubber that would react to other chemicals when applied to the tire that would change color etc? Kinda like the blue dye stuff in pools to keep kids from peeing in them...

It can be done, just gotta get to out thinking the others.

[DEKconsulting]

Hoosier has had some shady stuff goin on i personally know persons who have gotten 1300s stamped 1600 for a 1600 tire rule track and 1325s dtamped 1600 directly from hoosier not goin to say which particular region but yes it is goin on if u have the right connections

[slmcrewchief99]

Kromulous, the rubber is white when it's in it's raw form. Its turns black when the carbon black is mixed with the rubber, along with the other synthetic rubber mixed in with it. That's when it changes color. Not sure of any way you could ever get anything to make it change from its "black" color.

Open tire rule is not the answer. You can still juice tires to do things that will be better than an untreated tire most of the time. There is a science to juicing tires and making them work. The guys that do it all the time know what to do but to those that don't, lots of time and money are put into it with very little success. Low budget teams don't have the time and money to put in to what it takes to do it and do it right. 1 of the biggest reasons for me personally as being against juicing tires. We don't have the means, the money, or ANY d@mn desire to juice tires.

I think the penalties are where it is at. Lots of things have to change to make the process 100% legit if you are going to "legally" fine or suspend a driver for cheating. I've said before I don't have any problem at all with the series we run with and the "collection" process. I think its great. It's from that point on the questions really start showing. All the series need to get together, along with Hoosier and American Racer, and with the respective Labs that test the samples. The process has to be exact and absolute if you are going to make penalties have merit. All of those groups have to come together to make the process easier and more precise.

If you can make the testing process correct then you start nailing the guys doing it. Fine them the 1st time. Suspend them from racing period (sanctioned, non sanctioned, even local racing) for a few races and fine them very stiff the 2nd time. Then if it happens again the 3rd time, suspend them for 365 days. I know a lot of people hate the thought of that but if you make a believer out of those that juice tires then they will stop. It has to be enforced and be fair. If not, then it will end up in the Courthouse. Suspending guys from racing is no different than our everyday jobs we have. If we mess up, we get in trouble but are able to keep working. If we mess up often enough and bad enough we get fired. Stopping a few the hard way will go a very long way to stopping it all together.

[old fan]

4 th time your done go play golf or fish

[Barbecueboy]

@Barbecue You asked, "why they don't make tires that do exactly what racers want?"
That would be impossible, because what they want is an edge over everyone else, which is either a custom tire compound(unique) or customize the compound yourself(cheating). I'm not suggesting All racers resort to cheating tires, but the desire to be a step ahead is the motivation that can lead to it and when the box is made smaller, the temptation only increases.

We all want what we can't have....I totally understand that.

I'm just sayin, tire companies should be able to bring to the track a set of tires that would meet the compound requirments per race , that are factory groove and siped ( for the blister worries etc.) and tell the teams to suck it up and run them.........you did it to yourselves , cheatin bastards.

[Barbecueboy]

Rex Richey was so good with his re-stamping he fooled Hoosier, so...

He must not have been that good.......

[Barbecueboy]

Kromulous, the rubber is white when it's in it's raw form. Its turns black when the carbon black is mixed with the rubber, along with the other synthetic rubber mixed in with it. That's when it changes color. Not sure of any way you could ever get anything to make it change from its "black" color.

Open tire rule is not the answer. You can still juice tires to do things that will be better than an untreated tire most of the time. There is a science to juicing tires and making them work. The guys that do it all the time know what to do but to those that don't, lots of time and money are put into it with very little success. Low budget teams don't have the time and money to put in to what it takes to do it and do it right. 1 of the biggest reasons for me personally as being against juicing tires. We don't have the means, the money, or ANY d@mn desire to juice tires.

I think the penalties are where it is at. Lots of things have to change to make the process 100% legit if you are going to "legally" fine or suspend a driver for cheating. I've said before I don't have any problem at all with the series we run with and the "collection" process. I think its great. It's from that point on the questions really start showing. All the series need to get together, along with Hoosier and American Racer, and with the respective Labs that test the samples. The process has to be exact and absolute if you are going to make penalties have merit. All of those groups have to come together to make the process easier and more precise.

If you can make the testing process correct then you start nailing the guys doing it. Fine them the 1st time. Suspend them from racing period (sanctioned, non sanctioned, even local racing) for a few races and fine them very stiff the 2nd time. Then if it happens again the 3rd time, suspend them for 365 days. I know a lot of people hate the thought of that but if you make a believer out of those that juice tires then they will stop. It has to be enforced and be fair. If not, then it will end up in the Courthouse. Suspending guys from racing is no different than our everyday jobs we have. If we mess up, we get in trouble but are able to keep working. If we mess up often enough and bad enough we get fired. Stopping a few the hard way will go a very long way to stopping it all together.

Another thread ender...........summed up nicely chief.

[old fan]

We all want what we can't have....I totally understand that.I'm just sayin, tire companies should be able to bring to the track a set of tires that would meet the compound requirments per race , that are factory groove and siped ( for the blister worries etc.) and tell the teams to suck it up and run them.........you did it to yourselves , cheatin bastards.

how can the nanufactur come in with a tire already cut when multiple scenarios may happen

[Barbecueboy]

I've seen some drag racing where the tires threw off red smoke when they did a burnout......isn't that something inside the tire that does that?

[Barbecueboy]

how can the nanufactur come in with a tire already cut when multiple scenarios may happen

They tell the racer to suck it up and race cupcake............and go figure it out.

It's not like they are asking them to bolt on cinder blocks.

They aren't stupid, they know how to make tires, the series know how to plan for events, the tracks know what tires normally work well.

It's not really as hard as that sidewalk.

[old fan]

now go pull your pork http://www.racingtireguide.com/kumho...red-smoke.html

[old fan]

They tell the racer to suck it up and race cupcake............and go figure it out.It's not like they are asking them to bolt on cinder blocks.They aren't stupid, they know how to make tires, the series know how to plan for events, the tracks know what tires normally work well.It's not really as hard as that sidewalk.

but not every track acts the same some tracks the tires are cut up a lot different than other tracks

[Barbecueboy]

but not every track acts the same some tracks the tires are cut up a lot different than other tracks

If stupid were water, I would consider myself freshly water boarded.........come on litey, I understand all that, I'm saying give the racers a safe durable tire they don't really need to fuk with....and dare them to do so with stiff enforcement consequences.

The tire companies know how to do this stuff......for this to work, the racers are going to have to completely change their thinking.

I see the conversation going something like this ...........

Here are your tires......they are safe......they have have a standard cut and sipe pattern.....we have several compounds of each.......pick what you want to race on.....pay us a reasonable price.......stfu and go race......fuk with these tires and your out.......period.

Or go back to go carts.

[a25rjr]

If stupid were water, I would consider myself freshly water boarded.........come on litey, I understand all that, I'm saying give the racers a safe durable tire they don't really need to fuk with....and dare them to do so with stiff enforcement consequences.

The tire companies know how to do this stuff......for this to work, the racers are going to have to completely change their thinking.

I see the conversation going something like this ...........

Here are your tires......they are safe......they have have a standard cut and sipe pattern.....we have several compounds of each.......pick what you want to race on.....pay us a reasonable price.......stfu and go race......fuk with these tires and your out.......period.

Or go back to go carts.

Or.......heres yall 1 hard tire that you got to run on all 4 corners, but you can do whatever you want to it! NO testing will be done!

[old fan]

If stupid were water, I would consider myself freshly water boarded.........come on litey, I understand all that, I'm saying give the racers a safe durable tire they don't really need to fuk with....and dare them to do so with stiff enforcement consequences.The tire companies know how to do this stuff......for this to work, the racers are going to have to completely change their thinking.I see the conversation going something like this ...........Here are your tires......they are safe......they have have a standard cut and sipe pattern.....we have several compounds of each.......pick what you want to race on.....pay us a reasonable price.......stfu and go race......fuk with these tires and your out.......period.Or go back to go carts.

you can't fix stupid