Conversation on Shocks

[MachineMasters]

Your critique of Carrera is a bit broad an inaccurate. We didn't just build one kind of shock, with one set of curves, it depended on several variables such as customer preference and application. For example the qualifying shocks we built for the rear of Cup cars at Talledega were similar to todays DLM RF, letting the car fall and then holding it there. We built what suited the setups of the times and customers application, they were not, "one size fits all" and not only in vanilla. Compared to our contemporaries of the times, we had the broadest selection of designs, styles, sizes and curves ahead of anyone, period. With the right equipment and knowledge you build whatever is needed, the trick is knowing whats needed. Cheers.

Oh yes, I know.. sorry, wasn't trying to offend. I think Carrera was ahead of its time in the market: super lightweight shocks, PTFE lined shock bodies, 4-lead threads, basevalve, floating rod guide, 48mm piston, checked bleed circuits, real digressive pistons, etc. When they incorporated the Ohlins style rebound adjuster they got even better.

Getting back to the OP, shocks nowadays are all good for the most part - there really aren't any 'bad' shock brands out there. As others have stated, it all comes down to how they're valved. With the type of racing we all do, I'd be VERY impressed if someone could feel a difference between two identical valved shocks from two different brands. On asphalt yes, on dirt, I'm skeptical.

[RCJ]

In reference to the Digressive vs linear.A linear such as a 208/72 will only be at that rate at one velocity,low speeds it is soft ,high speeds it is stiffer.A dig.will be closer to its advertised rate over a much wider range of velocitys thus able to control the inertia of the wheel and tire over a wider range.Any time you talk about shocks you have to ask what are you trying to do.Control the tire over bumps, Change the handling or balance of the car or Hold the body at a certain attitude for aerodynamics.

[Kromulous]

Were looking to get more feel in the car, currently feels disconnected to the track and like its just floating across the surface. What would you suggest to do?

Mods it seems its easier to get a better feel of the track, smaller tires and firmer sidewalls i guess.

Especially in the RR.

Like everyone else nowadays, RF pinned down, a lot of hike, traction is pretty good and the car goes FWD ok, but he keeps telling me over and over the car lacks side-bite on the RR and no feel.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Were looking to get more feel in the car, currently feels disconnected to the track and like its just floating across the surface. What would you suggest to do?

Mods it seems its easier to get a better feel of the track, smaller tires and firmer sidewalls i guess.

Especially in the RR.

Like everyone else nowadays, RF pinned down, a lot of hike, traction is pretty good and the car goes FWD ok, but he keeps telling me over and over the car lacks side-bite on the RR and no feel.

Put a big RR spring in there Krom.

[fastford]

In reference to the Digressive vs linear.A linear such as a 208/72 will only be at that rate at one velocity,low speeds it is soft ,high speeds it is stiffer.A dig.will be closer to its advertised rate over a much wider range of velocitys thus able to control the inertia of the wheel and tire over a wider range.Any time you talk about shocks you have to ask what are you trying to do.Control the tire over bumps, Change the handling or balance of the car or Hold the body at a certain attitude for aerodynamics.

great post RCJ, that pretty much sums it up. when i first tried the soft rt frt on a bump stop , i turned my rebound all the way up on my m2s and i could feel the rt frt hoping or almost kind of vibrating, when i explained this to my shock builder he explained the need for slow speed dampening when doing this, now im no shock expert , but it made since to me so i sent him my shock with all the info he wanted, ie: shock measurement from eye to eye at ride height, static weight on that wheel and several other things , he sent me the shock back and it was night and day , sold me.......

[RCJ]

Krom, we fought the same problem half the year.My go to fix is a 208/72 linear for the r/r ,always worked on the swing arm cars.That also is the r/r shock in the DP1 bilstein package.It helped very little.We wore out the bolt holes on the 4 bar mounts ,jbar and shocks.I came to the conclusion that the r/f is slammed in the ground,l/r is up on the bars and now the l/f is chained or has a lot of rebound maybe the r/r is unable to respond.We started going to old school ways of just tightening the car up.It instantly started working better.

[Kromulous]

We have taken the LF limiter off for now, still run alot of rebound there but the limiter really made the car loose. Now that I am thinking about it more, i believe i should of made a combo of changes, stiffer RR spring as MBR says and then a shock change like you guys are saying, plus kept the LF limited somewhat. This winter i am going to make a refined version that i can adjust easily.

The car ran the best on a 250 RR, far amount of rebound, and a RF stack, a lot of rebound etc. RF had a stop on it, only for bottoming out.

Season is over now, but next year i am thinking a Linear base valve D/A on the RR, probably a Genesis GX2.