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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    106

    Default Switching to E85

    I know that E85 can be really inconsistent with it's blend, so my question is can you add methanol to say E60 to bring it up to 85? Or is there any additive I could use, this way I don't spend all of my time changing my tune or driving all over Gods creation testing pump E85 to keep it consistent?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    1,047

    Default

    You wouldn't want to do that, it isn't the same thing.
    Last edited by 50j; 12-04-2016 at 03:11 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    796

    Default

    Have to use Ethonal

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    829

    Default

    Pump gas E85 has quite the range according to the NTSA nweb site so buying from a reputable dealer is key but may not have the same savings in it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    106

    Default

    Thanks Lizard, I am trying to save money. If I could get reliable pump E85 at roughly 2$ a gallon vs 8$ a gallon fuel, (to win $200-$300) I could save roughly $60 a night. Figure that up over the course of the season! That is a lot of tires, or maybe a set of custom shocks. Think about it!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    205

    Default

    I think having consistant fuel so tune is easier to manage is worth something. What does a tank of bad fuel cost in time wasted at track, most times when it should have been your night?
    As a friend of mine likes to say Nuthins free.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    106

    Default

    I agree 95Shaw, just trying to save a few bucks. It may still be a little cheaper for me to buy "racing" E85 from a supplier like VP or someone like that.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    3,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by superstock50 View Post
    Thanks Lizard, I am trying to save money. If I could get reliable pump E85 at roughly 2$ a gallon vs 8$ a gallon fuel, (to win $200-$300) I could save roughly $60 a night. Figure that up over the course of the season! That is a lot of tires, or maybe a set of custom shocks. Think about it!
    I don't see how your going to save that much...

    I ran 4 barrel open motor and 4 barrel crate on race race gas tuned properly and only used 3-4 gallons a night total. When I ran the same crate on alky I burned 17-20 gallons in a night.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    thedirtysouth
    Posts
    4,004

    Default

    so you burned 5 times more alky than gas? my experience is about 2:1 on methanol , e85 is less than that. Down here racing fuel is 8 bucks a gallon , e85 is $1.79 right now . even after buying some strait ethanol to calibrate with , it is way cheaper than racing gas.

  10. #10

    Default

    I've been running pump E-85 for 2 years now. What I do is buy the fuel in june or july when the pumps would be closest to E-85. Then I test it and add unleaded gas if it's too high ethanol content or ethanol if it's too low. I usually buy a barrel at a time. When it gets close to fall I fill my barrel so I have enough to get through fall and spring. It's been working good for me. The key is making sure the fuel stays consistent so your carb tune will be right. It's a little extra work but the last time I filled my barrel it was $1.15 a gallon so compared to $8 race gas it's a big savings.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    3,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fastford View Post
    so you burned 5 times more alky than gas? my experience is about 2:1 on methanol , e85 is less than that. Down here racing fuel is 8 bucks a gallon , e85 is $1.79 right now . even after buying some strait ethanol to calibrate with , it is way cheaper than racing gas.
    you have already argued about this with me in the past, don't you get sick of beating a dead horse? I also explained to you that I was a alky dealer and my best bud ran alky still and went thru at least what I already posted in every single night of racing on the same tracks as me all season.

    Ill tell you the same thing as last time.. yes and I made the same hp on gas as alky, 5 less peak tq..
    Last edited by stock car driver; 12-05-2016 at 07:03 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    thedirtysouth
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    Default

    once again, how are you burning 5 times more alky than gas? thats my question. and ill keep beating that dead horse as long as the horse is incorrect. you come on here and degrade peoples opinion all the time, well 90% of the time any way. but when some one questions you , you get all defensive, also sounds like your buddy needs to find a new alky tuner if hes burning 5 to 1 alky over gas, carry on..........

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    in a van down by the river
    Posts
    1,892

    Default my personal opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by fastford View Post
    once again, how are you burning 5 times more alky than gas? thats my question. and ill keep beating that dead horse as long as the horse is incorrect. you come on here and degrade peoples opinion all the time, well 90% of the time any way. but when some one questions you , you get all defensive, also sounds like your buddy needs to find a new alky tuner if hes burning 5 to 1 alky over gas, carry on..........
    I agree , if they are burning 5:1 they need a new tuner, or carb guy.

    JMO
    I think there should be lifeguards in the genepool.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    3,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fastford View Post
    once again, how are you burning 5 times more alky than gas? thats my question. and ill keep beating that dead horse as long as the horse is incorrect. you come on here and degrade peoples opinion all the time, well 90% of the time any way. but when some one questions you , you get all defensive, also sounds like your buddy needs to find a new alky tuner if hes burning 5 to 1 alky over gas, carry on..........
    how? Its CALLED racing, the right pedal is on the floor 99.9 percent of the time with a 604 crate in a IMCA modified..

    haha, jdr performance is our carb builder

    nothing is incorrect its not just one buddy ding dong, everyone around me who runs on alky burns the same amount of alky...

    what you should be concentrating on but your not smart enough to figure it out is WHY I burned so little GAS... AND made the SAME power as alky................... that reason is jdr performance. call john he can hook you up, of course its not free or from a junk yard.
    Last edited by stock car driver; 12-06-2016 at 10:45 AM.

  15. #15
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    Jul 2007
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    3,223

    Default

    13-15 gallons alky for another guy I just asked, for average night, but if cautions in feature up to 20. top 4 guy 30-45 nights a year
    Last edited by stock car driver; 12-06-2016 at 10:44 AM.

  16. #16
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    Dec 2008
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    thedirtysouth
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    Default

    so you had to ask. i thought you already knew every thing, any way I call BS on you and your buddy, but any way i can see you do not posses the intelligence for me to keep arguing with you on this subject, so ill stop beating the dead horse,

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    MOULTRIE GA
    Posts
    306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fastford View Post
    so you burned 5 times more alky than gas? my experience is about 2:1 on methanol , e85 is less than that. Down here racing fuel is 8 bucks a gallon , e85 is $1.79 right now . even after buying some strait ethanol to calibrate with , it is way cheaper than racing gas.
    2:1 sounds about right.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    829

    Default

    Typical racing alcohol has a lower BTU content so it requires approx 2.2 times as much to make the same heat as typical race gas. Heat is energy. Assuming the A/F is stoic for the test, you need X amount of Air and Fuel to make a certain amount of power. You can argue all day long but you can't hide behind basic math.

    SCR could be right in the context that his buddies engine could be poorly set up for the fuel his using. Wrong cam, wrong carb settings, or some other variable between the two engines, drivers and set ups causing the large disparity in fuel consumption. SCR is still an arrogant ass and proves it with most of his posts so I don't take him seriously either way. Now in 1...2...3...

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    in a van down by the river
    Posts
    1,892

    Default

    So if you are running the Alky in a crate motor with less compression than a real race motor, I can see it possibly using a bit more fuel, but still not 5:1

    I run a 15º open UMP mod motor on 112+ race gas, and I use about 6-8 gallon a night on average say on a big fast 3/8 track.

    Years ago on alky with a 23º motor on same track I was using about 15 gallons a night.
    I think there should be lifeguards in the genepool.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,047

    Default

    Three things to think about. 1) Nobody races at stoichiometric a/f. It doesn't make best power there and you'd hurt the engine. 2) carburetor size has bearing on fuel consumption. 3) track conditions, idle time and caution laps also have bearing on fuel consumption. Looking at bsfc and consumption at w.o.t. doesn't factor in everything. SCD dyno tests his stuff. I'm willing to bet that the tune up was right with both fuels, and that the gas carb was punching way above it's weight.
    Last edited by 50j; 12-08-2016 at 03:41 PM.

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