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  1. #21
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    I think it's a combination of speed, equipment abuse, and just seeing someone as popular as BC die.

    Then again, there's a few tracks with that reputation, or geographically screwed.

    1.)Tazewell
    2.)Virginia Motor Speedway

    Ones I know of for sure.
    RIP Chris Cornell

    Dam shame, great voice, and great bands he was the front man for.

  2. #22
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    May 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by chupp n bloomer fan View Post
    He should literally write pieces for a racing paper/website. Very good always
    I agree, I think he would do a very good job.

  3. #23
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    Mar 2017
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by CIRF View Post

    You are partially correct, billet. If starters are mandated on midgets and sprint cars you not only have the starter but also, as you pointed out, an on board battery in addition to a clutching system system integrated into the drive train. There is a lot more to it than just mounting a starter.
    Actually, that's only partially true. U don't have to have a clutch or transmission to use a starter. The California spec sprints mandate starters and batteries w/o trans or clutch. They push them to a start-up area, edge of the track sometimes, lock in the rear and push the starter button. It's strong enough to push the car forward and fire it off w/o push vehicle. So just a starter/battery is all that's required.

    This part isn't directed at you CIRF, but I'm tired of seeing young men dead and paralyzed needlessly. The problem is the traditionalists who've grown too accustomed to death and severe injury and are not willing to make changes. They'd rather mourn a man's death and make a tribute video for youtube than fix safety issues. Personally, I'd trade every unnecessarily deadly track out there or silly light weight part just to get one of them back. I don't like seeing talent sacrificed needlessly for people's pleasure and then calling it, "tradition". We aren't curing disease or freeing oppressed peoples from tyranny, it's just passionate entertainment.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeafMaster41 View Post
    Actually, that's only partially true. U don't have to have a clutch or transmission to use a starter. The California spec sprints mandate starters and batteries w/o trans or clutch. They push them to a start-up area, edge of the track sometimes, lock in the rear and push the starter button. It's strong enough to push the car forward and fire it off w/o push vehicle. So just a starter/battery is all that's required.

    This part isn't directed at you CIRF, but I'm tired of seeing young men dead and paralyzed needlessly. The problem is the traditionalists who've grown too accustomed to death and severe injury and are not willing to make changes. They'd rather mourn a man's death and make a tribute video for youtube than fix safety issues. Personally, I'd trade every unnecessarily deadly track out there or silly light weight part just to get one of them back. I don't like seeing talent sacrificed needlessly for people's pleasure and then calling it, "tradition". We aren't curing disease or freeing oppressed peoples from tyranny, it's just passionate entertainment.
    Good post 41. Well said.
    RIP Chris Cornell

    Dam shame, great voice, and great bands he was the front man for.

  5. #25
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    Oct 2013
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    I am with you 41. Best post I have read in a long time.

  6. #26
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    May 2007
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    Nebraska
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    I agree that it's not that racers don't want to race there. I'm talking specifically late models here. The problem is the purse. Hard to justify putting a $30-$50k motor out there for $2500 to win. Especially when the motor is going to have to be freshened (or should be) after leaving. Belleville has a great history, however the racing in the lm class is poor. I've been there probably 8 times, and honestly I could have quit going after the first time. The speed is awesome, but for me it's not about the speed. They string out really quick and their is a huge separation between the have and have nots. When Lucas was there years ago, the show was pretty good, but for a regional series like mlra or mars paying $2500 to win makes zero sense. jmo though
    I live with fear, but sometimes she lets me race.

  7. #27
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    Aug 2007
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    I think the racing at Belleville sucks, but it's awesome watching hi powered latemodels go in the corner and not let off. I've been to Eldora and the latemodels absolutely put on a great show!

  8. #28
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    Jan 2016
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    Well tazwell is a third mile track record is 10.8 they have trouble drawing a large field of cars but they usually have a full field Lucas and world of outlaws both run their this year and on top of that it has new clay on it.

  9. #29
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    Cost too much now days to run that style of track. They are reopening a half mile in my hometown and its "Historic" but i'm not going to race unless they shorten it. The cost to run big tracks is just to great on the motors, and when you wreck you destroy a car. Risk vs Reward some look at it different but budget guys have to weigh it all out.

  10. #30
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3 wide View Post
    Well tazwell is a third mile track record is 10.8 they have trouble drawing a large field of cars but they usually have a full field Lucas and world of outlaws both run their this year and on top of that it has new clay on it.
    They do get full fields, but the series' brings over half of those cars with them. The series brings 10-14 guys that are committed to run the whole deal. They do good to get another 8 or 10 brave home staters that want to try it. Marlar is one of those brave souls that seems to show up at both of these shows. I highly doubt if the Taz put on a unsanctioned 10k show, many of these tour followers would come. Most of those guys do not like that place cuz it's so hard on stuff.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerslide View Post
    Cost too much now days to run that style of track. They are reopening a half mile in my hometown and its "Historic" but i'm not going to race unless they shorten it. The cost to run big tracks is just to great on the motors, and when you wreck you destroy a car. Risk vs Reward some look at it different but budget guys have to weigh it all out.

    Is that the old track in town in Muskogee?

  12. #32
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    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by LateModel B23 View Post
    Is that the old track in town in Muskogee?
    Yeah I'm sure that's the one he is referring to. It was the fairgrounds track. Huge. Flat. I saw a MARS race there 5 years ago or so and I think Will Vaught won both nights, but the racing wasn't very good. Just too big. It was reopened as "Thunderbird" a few years back then closed again, now opening again. The old Outlaw Motor Speedway track was one of the nicest places around but can never overcome seemingly perpetual incompetence in the management.

  13. #33
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    Jan 2016
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    Well they got a 10k Ray cook race later in the summer at tazwell will see what it draws also they draw a tremendous crowd in a small town area just goes to show great racing draws big crowds that is what I keep saying better work your race track put on a show and run on time.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by LateModel B23 View Post
    Is that the old track in town in Muskogee?
    Yeah they are dumping a good amount of money into it this time it seems. They are ordering LED lighting and doing a lot of work around the place. Hope it works out for them. Just can't see it lasting as a half mile. OKC car count was awesome when they had the 3/8 inside of the half mile. Cars just go so much faster now days.

  15. #35
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    Muskogee is a great historic track but the fact is the cars are to fast these days to put on a good show there. I first attended a race there back in the late 60's with my Dad when most Late Models were 55-57 Chevys. I also have been to most all of the MARS races there. The track is flat, narrow and just does not promote good racing with today's cars. I hope they shorten it to 3/8.

  16. #36
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    Nov 2007
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    I timed Moyer and Fry at 19.38 on a locked down track in the early 90s.A couple of years ago I TIMED Moyer and Stoval at 19.28 in the rubber.Both at Muskogee.I would have thought that the gains in motors would have made a bigger difference than that.Are the cars really that much faster today?I time Jeremy Payne at a faster time on a heavy track,with no tire checking.

  17. #37
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    Thumbs up Some things never change....

    Quote Originally Posted by RCJ View Post
    I timed Moyer and Fry at 19.38 on a locked down track in the early 90s.A couple of years ago I TIMED Moyer and Stoval at 19.28 in the rubber.Both at Muskogee.I would have thought that the gains in motors would have made a bigger difference than that.Are the cars really that much faster today?I time Jeremy Payne at a faster time on a heavy track,with no tire checking.
    Some will argue that the new cars are faster in the, "Dry Slick" to me they are just uglier and more expensive to make go as fast. When 4 link first became all the rage in the mid 90's the leaf cars were suppose to be dead and gone, but a friend of mine outran all the HAT regulars on 2 nights back to back at different tracks with a leaf/coil Mastersbilt. Then when the "On The Hook" setup hit big and was suppose to be unbeatable I had another friend in a traditional 4 link skin the "On The Hook" cars on multiple occasion's with a homebuilt steel block 358... I'll get blasted for saying all this, like I have many times, but its the truth. The physics don't change, only how we attempt to manipulate them. It's still 4 tires touching the ground, #2300 and the cars still work in an "X", the rest is just different degrees of alignment/misalignment and load.

  18. #38
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    Southern Illinois
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    As far as weight transfer weight%, 4 link, 5th coil the more things change the more they stay the same...on the other hand I think shock technology is where extreme advancement has been made... Ive seen 3 link modifieds with a solid pull bar dust 4 link mods with 3-4 way pull bars and 5th coils...
    Last edited by Illtsate32; 03-23-2017 at 01:29 AM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illtsate32 View Post
    As far as weight transfer weight%, 4 link, 5th coil the more things change the more they stay the same...on the other hand I think shock technology is where extreme advancement has been made... Ive seen 3 link modifieds with a solid pull bar dust 4 link mods with 3-4 way pull bars and 5th coils...
    You are exactly right. Kudo's.

  20. #40
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    May 2007
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    Fulton Missouri
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    I ran Belleville in the 90s with a Rayburn leaf car and in the 2006-8 with a 4 bar Pierce car. And we were faster with the Rayburn according to our records. The Rayburn Leaf car was so much more stable than the 4 bar car you could relax a bit. Figuring top speed by gear and tire size we topped out around 140 with the leaf car and 130 with the 4bar. Never was in contention but had a 15th place finish with the Rayburn. The 3 runs with the Pierce broke motors! And on top of breaking stuff was a nervous wreck! The car was just not stable at the speeds at that place. I have ran big tracks before, Eldora, Missouri state fair, Moberly Mo., Lebanon Mo., the old Granite City Il. Track, , And back when Denver had a half mile. Even a sand covered 5/8 in Holyoke Co. And none of them Compares to Belleville! The high banking and being round is just crazy! I never forget the 1st laps there and noticed numbers written on the walls so you would know which corner you were in, if it wasn't round. Lol
    Last edited by westlingracing; 03-23-2017 at 09:49 AM.

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