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  1. #1
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    Default Belleville High Banks TOO FAST

    what's a track supposed to do when talking to various racing series about scheduling an event their drivers tell them they won't go cause it's too fast? Changing the track isn't an option.

  2. #2

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    Aside from shortening the track a little I dont see any option...... A couple 1/2 miles hear in Michigan have shortened their tracks recently to gain car counts and fans.....

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by grader47 View Post
    what's a track supposed to do when talking to various racing series about scheduling an event their drivers tell them they won't go cause it's too fast? Changing the track isn't an option.
    You add restrictor plates, obviously.
    "The Wise One"

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by grader47 View Post
    what's a track supposed to do when talking to various racing series about scheduling an event their drivers tell them they won't go cause it's too fast? Changing the track isn't an option.
    You find someone with bigger balls and up the pay!
    THE REAL SLIDING SIDEWAYS!

  5. #5
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    Drivers don't want to run it, and fans don't want to see anybody killed. They lost a high profile driver there last year. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask them to make it more safe if they want to continue running.

  6. #6
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    Late models seem to concern themselves with safety much more than the open wheel ranks. I mean when u have been afraid to add a starter to save 50lbs obviously they aren't concerned in beefing up cages or adding a plate to the top of them.
    Always carrying my 2 Crown Jewels

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by zach51 View Post
    Drivers don't want to run it, and fans don't want to see anybody killed. They lost a high profile driver there last year. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask them to make it more safe if they want to continue running.
    What sort of inherent hazards are present?

  8. #8
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    I think more drivers won't run Belleville because of the stress it puts on the motor and equipment. They actually have a 1/4 mile track on the inside of it. Belleville is what it is if you change the track then you change everything that it was. It is kind of like the NASCAR Bristol debacle they made Bristol into this beating and banging temper flaring cage match and then change it to a half mile version of Michigan. Also for those who know nothing of Belleville it is like Eldora if Eldora had Balls

  9. #9
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    Yeah I mean there is nothing inherent other than the fact you are not going to be able to protect a racer from himself, and nobody wants to see a death at the racetrack. I suppose you can keep calling it the "midget nationals" with 18-20 cars, whereas the chili bowl gets 350. Its a fast, fast racetrack, and when something goes wrong it usually goes way wrong. Midgets and LM's are two completely different discussions.

  10. #10
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    Changing the track isn't an option.[/QUOTE]



    How is it not an option?

    If they can't shorten it why not put inside wall up and add dirt to the bottom of track.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by grader47 View Post
    what's a track supposed to do when talking to various racing series about scheduling an event their drivers tell them they won't go cause it's too fast? Changing the track isn't an option.
    Belleville isn't just fast, it's deadly. I've never been there, but it has that reputation and that's where BC was fatally injured last year, so... I wouldn't take banking out or do restrictor plates, probably shorten it or widen the surface or both, but like I said I've only ever seen clips from there. It's definitely no place I'd go in a midget or anything open wheel.

  12. #12
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    What are the lap times?Wythe is a big half mile and they run 15 sec laps

  13. #13
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    Belleville is basically a high banked circle. I remember Birky commenting on how fast it was and hard on motors.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1eagle View Post
    What are the lap times?Wythe is a big half mile and they run 15 sec laps
    16.30's is or was pretty common in a LM. However Belleville is actually larger then a half mile and closer to a 5/8 then a half. Eldora will fit in the infield of Belleville as it's about 300 feet longer. It's still short of a 5/8 and more like a 9/16th to be truthful. Speeds don't really drop much in the corners maybe 5 MPH as the track is pretty round so you basically maintaining the same speed all the way around the track.

    If you call it a 9/16th that's an 124.3 average MPH
    for a 5/8 it's 138 average MPH

    WoO sprints did least a 14.258 way back when and that is 142.0 MPH at a 9/16th

    Wythe would likely have a higher actual top speed because of the long straights but corner speed would be down some.
    Last edited by billetbirdcage; 03-17-2017 at 06:33 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by WisWildManFan View Post
    Late models seem to concern themselves with safety much more than the open wheel ranks. I mean when u have been afraid to add a starter to save 50lbs obviously they aren't concerned in beefing up cages or adding a plate to the top of them.
    Not a sprint car guy, but the issue with the starters wasn't the starter itself but the battery. Do you want to sit on top of a battery (didn't have dry cells back them at the time) on a car that was a matter of when you get upside down not when.

  16. #16
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    It's really an awesome race track. Regardless of the issues.

  17. #17
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    First. Who said they don't want to race there ? Eldora is fast, really fast. Anyone on here that thinks because BC lost his life there that no one wants to race there anymore. I think you would be wrong. It was and is a part of open wheel racing that can not be avoided. Yes there called open wheel, they should also be called open (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)pit cars. Everytime a driver straps into one of these machines it doesn't matter if your racing on a 1/4 mile to a large fast 1/2

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by zach51 View Post
    I suppose you can keep calling it the "midget nationals" with 18-20 cars, whereas the chili bowl gets 350.
    Actually last January it was 365.

    I've attended the High Banks for The Belleville Midget Nationals every year since 2012 and there have been around 35 cars there for the past 3 years. A significant bearing on Belleville car count is not nearly as much due to where it's run but rather the fact that for the vast majority of midget teams it's a 600-800 mile pull in the meat of their season. It's a USAC National event and the USAC teams will make the trip but many of the Badger, POWERi and ARDC guys won't and you can't really blame them.

    Quote Originally Posted by billetbirdcage View Post
    Not a sprint car guy, but the issue with the starters wasn't the starter itself but the battery. Do you want to sit on top of a battery (didn't have dry cells back them at the time) on a car that was a matter of when you get upside down not when.
    You are partially correct, billet. If starters are mandated on midgets and sprint cars you not only have the starter but also, as you pointed out, an on board battery in addition to a clutching system system integrated into the drive train. There is a lot more to it than just mounting a starter.




    The Chili Bowl is unsanctioned and has no weight rules or cage tubing thickness rules but all the midget sanctions have minimum cage tubing thickness, and it's significant. I was at Belleville last August and if a midget takes a direct hit to the cage from another car travelling at race speeds like BC's car did at Belleville on a 1/4 mile track the result would probably be the similar. It's safe to say that if a dirt late model at Eldora took a direct hit from another late model in the cage directly above the driver area at race speeds there would be serious injury or worse.

    The passion these drivers have for what they do overrides the danger they all know is present every time they strap in. Who am I to question them. To watch what some of these drivers do with racecars is literally incredible and every once in a while things are going to go badly.

  19. #19
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    Very well said CIRF

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidrock View Post
    Very well said CIRF
    He should literally write pieces for a racing paper/website. Very good always
    Up in the air who my next “favorite” driver is. Really losing hope on Bloomer getting anywhere back to “normal”.

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