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  1. #1
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    Question Limited Late Model HP question

    What's the average power output and cost of a good all steel, flat top limited late engine going for these days? Like what you'd see on the SELMSS(Southeastern Late Model Sportsman Series) in GA. Just curious as I'm not especially fond of crates or CT525's. Anyone running an LS based non-CT525 limited engine? I know the UMSS(traditional sprints) are allowing the LS 5.3 w/factory coil packs and an MSD controller to be run with them and it's competitive and economical too.

  2. #2
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    550-600 hp, $20-25k

  3. #3
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by a25rjr View Post
    550-600 hp, $20-25k
    Thanks for the reply and info, a25rjr.

  4. #4

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    690-710 if you are running a steel one to meet series rules. Very expensive new but pretty cheap used.

  5. #5
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    Your not going to see 690-710hp out of a convenital 23* head flattop piston 360ci engine even if you give $25,000. More like the one dude said 550 maybe 580 on a good one.

  6. #6

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    I ran steel blocks in ky for years and the best all steel motor I had was a 436 pro action heads, 210 and 165 valves, scat rotating assembly and heads that flowed 310 at 700 lift. It went 639. The 362 I had which was the same everything just different bore and rotating assembly made 514. 10k put that motor together and that was using a 10051184 gm bow tie racing block. We won with both.

  7. #7
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    you can spend what ever you want on what ever type engine you want, dont mean your gone win a race though. i witnessed a fellow a few years back win several races in a row in the dead of summer with a flat top 350 with vortec heads against several 15000 dollar engines , i believe he had less than 4 grand in whole engine.

  8. #8
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    Our limiteds here in the South, usually are 360ci max, with a 23* spec head of various brands.

  9. #9
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    Thanks. All the intel and experience is very helpful.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastford View Post
    you can spend what ever you want on what ever type engine you want, dont mean your gone win a race though. i witnessed a fellow a few years back win several races in a row in the dead of summer with a flat top 350 with vortec heads against several 15000 dollar engines , i believe he had less than 4 grand in whole engine.
    These are good points. Engine power isn't everything but it sure helps. Track and shape make a big difference I think.

    Always some exceptions to every rule.

    Local cat always known for big power and works at a machine shop. Wins almost all the races till he goes to special shows then he's mid pack. Why? Mostly over powered I think against more competition. The local tracks is hooked up hammer down and the other is stupid dry slick but 1/2 mile and very high banks.

    Mullins is known to be overpriced....The same 10k gets you far less (maybe nothing!) than a local builder who enjoys the challenge more than the money.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by perfconn View Post
    Your not going to see 690-710hp out of a convenital 23* head flattop piston 360ci engine even if you give $25,000. More like the one dude said 550 maybe 580 on a good one.
    I don't know where you race or who builds your motor, but call Cornett,Clements,Vic Hill or B&B out of Tennessee and ask anyone of them what kind of hp you can get out of 23* stuff. Your local backyard builder may not get that much, but you usually get what you pay for. Also I didn't say flat top , I said to meet the Southeastern Rules he stated. Thanks
    Last edited by President Clinton; 03-25-2017 at 06:17 AM.

  12. #12
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    I don't need to call anybody.I have sold steelhead engines all over the country & I know what kind of power to expect out of them.Facts are you cannot & will not get 690-710hp out of a 360ci flattop piston 23* non RAISED RUNNER style head.Yes with dome pistons & RAISED RUNNER RHS cast iron heads 690-710 is possible.
    You didn't say flattop pistons but the original poster specified them.
    Last edited by perfconn; 03-25-2017 at 10:19 AM.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by perfconn View Post
    I don't need to call anybody.I have sold steelhead engines all over the country & I know what kind of power to expect out of them.Facts are you cannot & will not get 690-710hp out of a 360ci flattop piston 23* non RAISED RUNNER style head.Yes with dome pistons & RAISED RUNNER RHS cast iron heads 690-710 is possible.
    You didn't say flattop pistons but the original poster specified them.
    Yes he said flat top,but he also mentioned within Southeastern Late Model series that runs in Ga. Not trying to get in a pi**ing match. Sorry if I offended your ability in achieving horsepower, didn't mean to. But 690 hp with non raised runners @ 362" is achievable.I will even sell you one.
    Last edited by President Clinton; 03-25-2017 at 04:34 PM.

  14. #14
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    You will never sell me a 362ci with Dart steel heads that will make 690hp because it's impossible unless the Dyno is cranked up.I didn't ride in on a load of turnips but you can believe all the engine builders you mentioned if you choose too.I know better,I've been building engines for 30 something years.Bet you won't find anybody else to agree with you either.President Clinton might buy one of your 690hp Dart motors if Hillary will loan him some money.

  15. #15
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    Cannot be done. I see the SUPR spec head is allowed, have had several of those motors over the years. One of the better ones we had just happened to be built by PERFCONN. If memory serves correct it was 635hp on a conservative dyno. Another 360 flat top we had used some 49cc Iron Eagles with good port work and was 658 on gas, different dyno than the SUPR motor was on though.

    As far as the SPCH heads that series allows, in 2015 our USMTS/USRA motor was a 415 with the SPCH heads. It dyno'd at 637 on alk, only 2hp more than the 360ci SUPR spec, so those heads with 55 more ci only gained 2hp.

    This week we will be at the dyno with our 2 modified motors for this season, both are 400 ci. One has the SPCH heads the other has a set of Dart Pro1 230's. They are both roller cam motors and right at 14.5:1 compression. I will be happy to post the numbers for both of them and will say right now that neither is going to be close to 700hp.
    Last edited by LateModel B23; 03-25-2017 at 06:33 PM.

  16. #16
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    Right on Bill.Some of these dudes will believe anything they are told.Tony Barker came to me once and asked what he could do about these engine builders making all these fabulous hp claims about their SUPR spec engines.I told him if they were stupid enough to believe them then there was nothing he could do except outrun them.

  17. #17

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    Jason at vic hill's educated me on that outrageous hp#. I took my motor to him to be dyno'd and the 6t from West Virginia was on the dyno. It's real # was not all that fabulous (neither was mine) but when you calculate conditions at sea level which is what they call "calculated horse power" then it made the #'s that are generally the topic of discussion. Like I said above my 436 all steel motor made 639 it's true # was 574. Cropper was always the world's worst for throwing out 900 ponies and only giving you 720. I think that people who race check books and get in male reproductive organ measuring contests like to see those numbers, people who are educated and know about the biz are more concerned about drivability. My motor from clements when it was new made 867, I can assure you it did not feel like 867. 445 sb2.2

  18. #18

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    I don't own a dyno, but I have owned Steel and Aluminum engines from top builders. All I can go by is their reputation???? So I guess I am politely saying I am done with this. I will continue to spend my money on the paperwork they provide me not internet advice. Thanks for trying to help me,

  19. #19
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    There are tons of 550hp, claimed 800hp engines out there. Tons of em.
    BUCKLE UP NOW, YA HEAR?

  20. #20
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    Ours from Vic Hill made 565

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