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Thread: Bert ?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    191

    Default Bert ?

    I can't get a good pedal on the clutch. It will pump up and hold but when I let off and press it again it goes to floor. It worked fine last fall. I took it out of one car over winter and put in another and now I can't get a good pedal without pumping it 3-4 times. I have bleed it till I'm sure there is no air in it. I changed master cylinders, still same thing. Could it be internal. Any ideas.

  2. #2

    Default

    Try unbolting and rotating bert until the bleeder is at its highest point then try to bleed , also you can try letting it gravity bleed for a little while.. sometimes they can be a pain.. double check all braided lines for kinks and any leaks at fittings..

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    473

    Default

    The best way I have found to bleed a bert is, with pedal up loosen bleeder, push pedal down & hold ,with pedal down tighten bleeder, repeat till all air is out.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    MOULTRIE GA
    Posts
    306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MLR19 View Post
    The best way I have found to bleed a bert is, with pedal up loosen bleeder, push pedal down & hold ,with pedal down tighten bleeder, repeat till all air is out.
    I will 2nd that .

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Lost, but way ahead of schedule
    Posts
    1,359

    Default

    I've used the same LMZ for the past four years and had no problems until I replaced the master cylinder...couldn't get a pedal to save my life, despite bench bleeding the master. I ended up taking an old brake line and attaching it to the bleeder on the trans (the inverted 3/16" flare fitting), running the line straight up to just under the decking (higher than the master cylinder), and curving the end back down (like a stretched out "S" or question mark). I placed the open end in a bottle of brake fluid (filled) and pushed the pedal a few times until no more air came out. Then I unattached the "bleeder line" and reinstalled the bleeder plug.

    That did the trick!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    3,124

    Default

    We've found that completely removing the bleeder on each pump-up and doing it as fast as possible speeds up the process. Use a drill if you have to. If the bleeder is opened slowly, it seems like the pressure drops before the air gets pushed completely out. Hard to explain but we have found it much faster to remove the bleeder quickly each time.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    723

    Default

    I'd make sure the MC piston is uncovering the hole that allows fluid to move from the reservoir to the bore.

    If that ok then you can try it my way. I used an old cap and drilled a 5/8 hole in the upper most postion and made some slits about 1/4" long in an X pattern just below the hole. I then screwed a cheap bolts in type tire valve. Using a clip on tire inflator tool I clip it on, turn down the compressor air to 20lbs and crack the bleeders open. In about 5 seconds the air pressure above the fluid in the reservoir will push the fluid through the hole in the MC, down the lines and out the bleeder valve. It's takes about 10 seconds to empty the very large Wilwood type MC's so work quickly. You can bleed the the brakes and clutch by your self in less then 10 minutes this way as well.
    Tip: Put a lenght of 5/16 rubber vacuum hose over the bleeder and teh excess fluid can be directed anywhere in to catch can or bottle for a no mess bleed job. I use an old brake fluid bottle I glued a magnet too so it's stick to anywhere for convenience. To keep the rubber hose from falling out I drilled a hole near the top of and pushed the hose into it so it's held by friction only. Make sure you loosen the cap so the pressure build up in the bottle doesn't push the fluid back out of the hose when you pull it off the bleeder.

    One could make one portable from a 1 gallon garden sprayer as well with a custom nozzle that could fit the bleeder holes or the MC caps. It doesn't matter which way your pushing fluid as long as it's clean and without air bubbles.

    This is the same idea behind the expensive pressures bleeders shops use except with a custom cap. Also, I still use the bleeders with 1 way check valves so this process is easy at the track or Walmart Parking lot at 3am in the middle if Nebraska.....Whatever the case may be.

  8. #8

    Default

    replace the rubber in the trans, not a big job can do it in the car. I think it takes 1 and 1/16 or 1and 3/16 cup

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    232

    Default

    I've got a big syringe, I fill it with fluid, a little hose and put it on the bleeder, and inject brake fluid from the bleeder on the tranny into the MC, then bleed it the normal way, between 1-2 times of doing that mine is pretty good.
    Here's my little home on Youtube!
    http://www.youtube.com/user/AmickRacing
    Home Page
    http://www.AmickRacing.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    663

    Default

    Take a clean oil can fill with fluid put hose on end of can other end on bleeder pump till you see bubbles in reservoir bleed like normal same principal as sryinge mentioned earlier just oil can might be easier to come by.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    191

    Default

    I worked on it for about 3 hrs. and still not right. I tried some of the suggestions with no luck. I even started from scratch and bench bled the master cylinder. If I pump it up and don't let off the pedal all the way it has a good pedal. When I let off all the way and push it again it goes all the way down. Makes me think master cylinder but I have swapped it with another and still same till I pump it and only then if I use short quick pumps. As much as I have done I don't see it being air.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    Lost, but way ahead of schedule
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    1,359

    Default

    I'd look at the system as three parts: The master cylinder, the line/hose, and the trans. Are you able to remove the hose from the trans and plug it off (like with a 4AN male plug)? If bled there and plugged, and still no pedal, plug it at the master cylinder itself. If still no pedal, either the master is no good or not fully bled itself.

  13. #13

    Default

    Put a return stop on the pedal, I have had the same issue before and was never a problem, just pumped pedal till it worked. I finally put in a stop and that worked well.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    191

    Default

    I thought about a stop. But will check it as mentioned as separated parts and see if I can pin point it.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    429

    Default

    [QUOTE=ace1;2089824]I thought about a stop. But will check it as mentioned as separated parts and see if I can pin point it.[/QUOTE I've also had the same issue with it losing the pedal if you let all the way up. I just grew used to it. I guess. One or two quick pumps and it's good to go. When I get in a car with a good clutch now I stall it out one or two times before I get it going.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    723

    Default

    It shouldn't be that hard. I think you still have air being sucked into the system from either the seals in the MC, the seals in the Slave, the bleeder or connections.

    The fact that when the pedal is prevented from returning all the way, the vacuum on the system is kept low and air isn't being pulled into the system. A pedal stop is just crutching the system. This will also make bleeding it a pain because without the vacuum the system won't pull in fluid from the reservoir.

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